2015 Project Thread!

Here's an LTD side profile for comparison. I can't really tell if the front bumper is really that much lower, they may have curved the body lines in a different way, I'm not sure. I do like how the bumper isn't just floating way high in space, there's more sheet metal below it so it's better integrated with the rest of the car.

thats a pretty car!!! yeah I had one of those LTD'S, 6 cylinder, it was a good car, of course it was white! I think ive seen the LTD fronts on the Fairmont or mustang, I cant remember which way round, and I've seen the mustang front on a Fairmont also, I've only seen them in photos, not in the light of day. I wanted to do an LTD a couple of years ago, they are pretty much the same fox body platform, so the AJE or max m/sports k-member,8.8 & 5.0 will fit. it was at a impound lot, and the price went up 30 bones a day, I finally said @#$%^&*() it, because they couldn't make a decision, and I thought 500 bones was better than the 200 from the salvage merchant, but the salvage merchant won....I have no patience for idiots or dither'ers. they are nice looking cars even today. you are aware that you can bring that front bumper in a bit by altering or replacing the horrible little bump/shocks up frt.

Funny thing is, one of those LTDs, a white wagon with a beautiful dark green cloth interior, is what finally drove my great uncle Don away from Ford. He was a Toyota man after that, and took every opportunity to trash talk Fords. On his LTD though, I remember being really impressed by the integrated digital clock. Hahaha! When I was driving my Zeph on a grocery run the other day, I was missing having a clock in easy view. I might have to find a way to integrate one somewhere on my dash.

But yeah, those have the same wheelbase and everything as an F/Z. Since the wagon is the same body shell all the way through, we F/Z guys can take advantage of their same gas tanks and rear bumpers.

It's crazy how some people just shoot themselves in the foot because they just want to be stubborn.

I know you can tuck the F/Z bumpers, but I don't like how that looks. I always think they look like they've been in a crash after that. Plus, the bumpers can still grab your pants as you walk by the side of the car in the garage. I HATE that!

I grew up in the '80s, see. I'm used to integrated bumpers. This red car even has them painted body color, which I love!

if you look at the lines of the car, I don't know why they called it an LTD, IT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO THE FAIRMONTS & ZEPHYRS.
I do still like the body style even today, however I can not recollect any truly bad-assed LTD's on the drag scene.
I would still like to have an LTD as well as the Fairmont for various reasons, a 5.0 with a mild cam would look fabulous tucked between the shock towers, of course it would have to be white......
I cant say anything bad about Toyota's, I spent 10 years with them, and 4 years with Lexus, they seemed very reliable and well engineered, however I spent my time in England with them, so they had more power, we had very few engine failures, now the Jap engines were even more powerful.I specialized in manual trans and electrics, I was fairly busy with transmissions, but the electric side was quiet, however when I moved over to ford, the electrics side was quite busy, so I thank Ford for my electrics skills.
nowadays they don't want specialists, they want you to be a jack of all trades so one technician does the whole job, but nowadays I think we need specialists more than ever, have you ever seen a suspension tech do electrics or vice versa? I hate auto trans and suspensions, but i would gladly pull a dash on a Fusion to replace a blend door motor before replacing the shocks on one!

Yeah, I think they changed the name to make you think it's new, when it clearly isn't. Kind of like the LTD II of 1977. It was obviously just a Torino with more "formal" styling. I think they did that to wring a few more years out of the dated design and in case the Fairmont was a flop. And history repeated itself in 1983. Let's wring a few more years out of the Fox chassis midsize sedan in case the Taurus is a flop. Lucky for them both the Fairmont and Taurus were huge successes. The opposite scenario happened in 1988. Ford had come up with a modest update for the dated Fox Mustang in 1987 to get a few more years out of it in case the FWD Mazda Mustang (Probe) was a flop. No one accepted the Probe as a Mustang, so they had to keep the refreshed '87 design around for longer.

It bugs me that Ford holds on to the same body designs for way too long. And they're still doing it! Witness the Expedition. It's been the same body shell since 1997. Do they really think we can't tell??!!! Sure they upgrade the chassis and stuff, but change the body so it looks new for pete's sake! Hopefully now with "One Ford" they won't be doing that anymore.

I'll bet a big reason you don't see as many LTD drag cars is 1) they didn't sell as many of them as F/Zs, and 2) there was never a 2-door!

I hate Toyota. Sure, it does have some admirable qualities, but I hate the fact they were able to bamboozle the American public into believing they're perfect. Recently, I watched a Motorweek from 1978 that featured the Fairmont, and even then the tone about American cars was that the Japanese are the only ones that have a clue about what they're doing. I hate the fact that people flock to Toyota in droves but their products are super-dull appliances on wheels. Only now are the US manufacturers coming out of the policy of making Toyota "me-too" products. When Toyota had that unintended acceleration fiasco I enjoyed the HELL out of that. "How's your 'perfect' Toyota now, a$$hole?!!"

I'm surprised they don't want specialists. I've been out of the game for almost 15 years, but back when I was in it, both shops I spent a good amount of time in definitely had specialists. When one guy was done with the alignment, he would pass it to the next guy for the drivability problem.

C'mon though. Shocks are easy! Especially if you're in a shop with a proper strut compressor! haha

some shocks are dead easy, while others require some really stupid disassembly just to get them out.
I will always like Toyota, it was the best training I ever had so far as electrics and manual transmisions(and it was intense).
when we were kids we were fans of individual cars, GTO, Camaro, Mustang, Corvette, charger, Challenger, 442  etc, and all for different reasons, the Camaro for the 302 engine, 426 hemi, 428 and 429, the 340, the C4, turbo 400 etc, it wasn't any particular Brand, when Bob Glidden was on the scene he was fast, and had been for some time, but I took no notice until the Fairmont came out, I didn't know what a Fairmont was, but they looked cool and I wanted one. today, i'm more brand driven, it's "say no" to GM, dodge, Chrysler funny how times change.
I don't like the idea that some of todays cars are packed full of distracting look at me "options". people should look where they are going when they drive the cars and not blame the options  like "lane departure, adaptive speed control etc for mishaps. these are good options in some ways, but I somehow feel that it gives the driver more time to fiddle around with all the gadgets instead of paying attention to the road. I like technology, it's great, but it's not fool proof or an excuse not to pay attention while driving. just look at the commercials, on the tv; people are distracted and not paying attention while driving when the options kick in.

Now, if they had me doing Fox body front springs all the time, hell no would I want to be a suspension guy!!

Yeah, driver distraction is a huge problem these days. And the voice command systems that are supposed to "keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel" as The Doors might say, are just as bad as anything because there's such a learning curve with them. And they don't understand you half the time.

Yep, I'm a Ford man though and through. I'd rather push a Ford than drive anything else.

I think my electric fan controller is dying. More collateral damage from that time I was bubbling/topping off my cooling system and had a catastrophic overflow that melted my fan controller fuse. It makes this loud buzzing noise before turning the fan on. I really don't want to have to worry about this thing overheating. I've had enough of that for one lifetime. It makes me want to put a clutch fan back on. I won't do that though, I paid way too much for my fan setup to abandon it now.

is the company that sold the cooling fan controller still in business, or are you going to try a different type/make.
I was always worried about the electric cooling fans on mine, in fact I kept turning on the A/C just to make sure it worked before I went anywhere.
I remember making a control unit for a guy who had a MK8, he had the probe type adjustable temp style sensor, but the relay melted, so I made a relay pack for the cheap assed cooling fan he had installed. I used two 30 amp relays wired parallel to operate the fan as the single relay was too weak and couldn't take the amperage. It worked great, until some electrical engineer decided to rewire it using a single 30amp relay, I laughed my ass off when the same thing happened again. you can find the 80 amp single relays if you look online or you can use stock ford relays for ABS or air suspension on some models, I believe the MK7 uses them, even the lowly expedition has some decent air suspension relays that can handle a fan.
I spoke to Fred yesterday, he says the cobra engine uses 1.6 rockers on both side when stock, but depending on what you want to do, and how big the cam is, whats the lift , whats the rpm etc, blah blah, so at least that's settled, they use 1.6 stock on both sides.

I don't know if they're still around. I'll look into that though. I chose this one because I like that you can adjust the temp the fan turns on. My worry is that hot coolant got into the inner workings of the thing. Maybe something in there got hotter than it's supposed to because of that, or it was damaged because it had moisture inside it. Although, I guess it would make sense that if moisture got somewhere it's not supposed to be, it may have taken this long to rust, so I'd just now be seeing problems... I just need to get some time to look at it. I really just want to get this yard/garage storage project done already, so that takes all my free time. I won't get any free time again until Tuesday.

Interesting about the Cobra rockers. I'm sure my engine guy will have a good recommendation. He seemed to think it was absolutely crazy I wanted to use the stock rockers with my head upgrade, haha. I guess most guys upgrade their rockers at least to stock ratio rollers at that point.

fred & his dad used to build some pretty nasty engines, they did things a little different, they were great machinists,they built a ford 360 engine with some 289 heads and put that in Fred's 67 mustang, it ran pretty damn well, I don't know how many rpm it did, but it certainly got up there and quick. they had some kind of "balancing trick) from what I understand.
the old ccrm's (constant control relay modules) from the fords were pretty reliable for fans, however they are about 4in by 5 in in size. I like them because they are packed full of relays and are easy to wire up and tuck in nicely just about any where, including behind the fenders, just a thought. good for PCM, fuel pumps etc, i'm always off on a tangent, so they suit me fine.
have you considered replacing the fuel pump yet.
today I plan on clearing more stuff from my garage, so I brought home a bunch of boxes for the stuff I want to keep if I can get rid of this headache (2 days now).

A 360, huh? That's a weird choice, haha. I tend to not think much of FEs, except the 427, of course. The '87 Mustang I had years ago, I swapped in a 289 that my wrenching mentor had built. It had balance internals and that thing could rev quick!

I have an external fuse box from an early '90s Taurus to swap into my car at some point. I'll use it to eliminate the fusible links and starter solenoid. I'm sure that has a relay or two on it. You keep talking about building a controller. So, am I to assume that means that all you need is a temp probe set to switch at a certain temp, a fuse and a relay? I always figured there was some magic that happens in between there somehow. I know my fan has low and high speed, so I don't know what my controller does with that...

Yeah, I still plan to install that dusty new-in-box 155lph pump that I have. Just have to get around to it. I'm a little skeptical of whether that's going to fix my pressure drainback problem. I've already replaced my pump once for that same issue years ago.

Always cool to get organized! I might spend some time on my garage when the kids nap today. We'll see. I need to move the car stuff from one free standing shelf to another, so I can cannibalize the one set to fix a metal cabinet i have. The one set of shelves is all bent and rusty, so I'm going to cut it up, haha. Bummer about your headache. I don't get migraines, but I do get some deusies.

i don't know what type of controller you actually have, is the relay separate from the probe & the "box" or is it all one unit. I don't believe in low speed fans too much, like I said years ago, I have a problem with excess. I usually make my crap out of junk, the way I had the 4.2 engine wired was by using a fan switch hooked to 2x 30 amp relays wired parallel, the switch was screwed into the thermostat housing, I got both from checkers or autozone, so i only had to make on trip into town, the fan was off of an old Taurus I believe. I had no problems with it and it fit the stock radiator, I don't remember drilling any holes, probably did, my drill never cools down! . I used a hollowed-out ccrm box to house the relays. I like to make my stuff, it's a "john" thing. I was worried it wasn't going to work, but it was fine. it's always better to use new stuff, and some of the newer fan controllers are pretty good and the newer fans take less amperage to start up and run, so if I had the cash today, I may opt for a kit, it's definitely easier and probably just as good or better.
I hope all goes well with the fuel pump, should solve the leak-down problem.

The relay is on the controller box, the probe is on a wire. I like the idea of putting the switch in the thermostat housing! I hadn't thought of that! I just knew I didn't want to have to drill and tap another massive hole like I did for the air temp sensor in the Explorer intake. I works, but I don't feel that it went very well. My drill was walking all over the place when I was trying to go through that thick aluminum boss. I consider myself very lucky there's no vacuum leak there.

If it turns out my controller is failing, I'll keep that in mind. I'm sure it'll be a lot cheaper than a new controller. If I have to pick a temp for my fan switch, what's the ideal temp for max efficiency/mileage? 190?

I'm just so tired of dealing with stupid piddly issues like this on this car. I just want to get in, hit the key and go, and not have to worry about a thing. That's why I went with EFI in the first place. Some guys like spending every weekend fiddling with their carb, but not me. I want to drive and enjoy the thing.

everybody has their own ideas about what is the ideal temperature. if the thermostats operate at around 180/190 I think around 200 -210 is a good temp to turn the fan on, but make your own decisions, I just detest buying a kit, and the contraptions I make often cost more, and may take more than one attempt, but that's my problem, I call it the "john thing" my wife calls it a bull headed waste of time.
when I watch the shows on the TV, I see a lot of people using nice kits and some really good stuff, but most of those things are well out of my reach financially, so I just try to figure it out and make one (or two).
years ago I found article on a hybrid ignition system using the analog style (stock Fairmont distributor) there were a few sites with the same info for jeeps, 6 cyls, 4 cyls, 8 cyls and other cars I tried it and man what an immediate horsepower gain on a 4.2 litre boat anchor!!! I made it as painful for myself as possible, correct size fuses, correct gauge wire, soldered all joints, found loads of connectors so I could make it easily repairable/replaceable, made a replacement module in case it failed away from home, I never had a problem with the system, so I drew it out on PowerPoint to offer it to friends, nobody was interested, they would rather have stock systems or MSD! Cool, I understand. The hardest part of the whole operation was finding a heatsink large enough for the HEI module. It’s a great modification, and it uses the reliable and affordable E-core coil from the ford TFI system!! However this mod won’t work on a point-style or TBI style distributor because they are hall-effect.
I just like fiddling around to “see what happens” sometimes it works out well, sometimes great, sometimes failure and frustration overcomes determination.

Interesting, okay. I was thinking maybe the temp should be somewhere close to where the thermostat opens, but that's good to know. I just want this engine to operate at the temp that it's intended to, so i'll get max efficiency/fuel mileage/performance. Right now, I have my controller set pretty low (from back right after I overheated, so I was paranoid) and I feel like it's going through a LOT of fuel. Not only that, I feel like it could be running a lot stronger too.

Did your Fairmont come with a 4.2? haha, that's funny. I'm not that familiar with the steps in between points and hall-effect distributors. For that matter, I'm not that familiar with points either, haha. My dad just upgraded the distributor on his '66 Mustang to a Pertronix electronic setup. Those are a pretty sweet deal. All contained inside the distributor, no box needed! You should ask Stymee what he thinks about MSD, haha. It's not pretty.

I hear the pertronix is the cats meow!! my bud is a member of a big wig mustang club and does a lot of judging, he likes them also. yeah the 4.2 was a really good stepping stone for the 5.0.

Did you repurpose the 4.2 as an actual boat anchor? That would be funny to do. haha

Since I don't have a temp gauge that actually tells me what the temp is, looks like I'll have to add one. I'll look for something cheap and small I can install probably under the hood. I don't like the look of added gauges inside the car, especially redundant ones. The capillary tube type ones are the cheapest. Since it would most likely be temporary, I wonder if I could install it in the thermostat housing, or if there wouldn't be enough depth there for the sending unit to fully seat. Somebody told me there's a pipe plug somewhere on the intake I could use, but I call BS on that. They might've been thinking it was an original Zephyr engine or something.

As for the controller, I'll need something I can wire the A/C switch into. I wonder what people usually do when the fan has low and high settings. Most fan controllers seem to only allow for one fan speed. Maybe they're intended for race cars, and not the punishment of a daily driver. I guess I need to stop being cheap and get something I know I can rely on.

Discovered something a bit troubling, haha. The sheet that came with my fan says I should be using a 70 amp relay, but my controller only has a 30 amp. hahaha! I've been looking at some pretty dang nice controllers. One that controls fan speed with pulse width modulation, like a returnless fuel pump system, and one that has a temp readout, right there on the unit! Pretty sweet! After looking at the instructions for a few of the cheaper ones, I was starting to lose hope that there really aren't any that suit my needs, low and high and A/C over-ride. But that was premature. I just have to fork over more money than I thought.

Relay question though. When you wire two relays in parallel, that doubles the rated amp capacity?

No the old 4.2 is not even suitable as a boat anchor due to it’s configuration and size, it’s just an unwanted turd……..
wowzer.............what do you mean your temp gage doesn't read the temperature???? if your going to add a temp gauge, use the electrical ones; less B/S and easy to wire, no cruddy stiff wire to try and hide.
Look at NAPA Home site look @ Part Number: BK 6051080; this is a fits all for the S/B ford engines with a tap in the top for WHATEVER you want to put into it. Most electric gauges/sensors can be found to screw into it. Just make sure you seal it with a good Teflon sealer when working with aluminum.

correctomundo, most aftermarket fans have only one speed, I referred to the two spd fan on the 4.6 engine in my car using a CCRM or the other OEM fans. Aftermarket single spd is fine as it blows full blast when it's on.
ok easy/peasy, when the a/c clutch is switched on you need to run a wire to wire to switch on the fan relay, be careful to wire it correctly or when the fan is turned on by the temp switch it will try to fire off the a/c compressor.
Yes I have seen the 80 amp relays on amazon, e-bay and on older cars like for ABS or air suspension, but if I got 2x 30 amp relays that were just laying around wired in parallel I’ll run with it, because the amp load is cut in half for each relay. The reason for the 80 amp relay request is for when the fan starts-up, they draw a lot of current, when they are running full blast, they take a lot less, so naturally they burn the 30 amp relays up quicker due to start-up. Also try to use a 10 or 12 gauge wire to operate the fan so the wires don’t overheat.
The problem with a 80 amp relay is that the relays are small, the spade connectors are small and they are usually rated at around 15-30 amps depending how tight they fit the relay pins
back in the day, the old hot rodders would put all the gages under the hood to include oil pressure and usually mounted them in a single panel, it looked cool if you were working on it, but you were lost if you were driving it. sometimes when you beat the older engines really hard, they would lose a bit of oil pressure and also the heat would go up. I'd hate to have the cable drive taco's.

I looked again at my temp gauge and it does actually have real numbers on it, 130 at low and 270 at high. So right in the middle should be about 200 degrees. I can just use that. Gauge crisis averted. haha. It had been running well below the halfway point, so that's a problem, and probably why I've been going through so much gas. I've seen cars that have a nice array of gauges under the hood. That does look cool.

I'd really rather not drill any new holes if I can help it. I've seen some controllers that just tap into your factory sending unit. Now THAT is cool!

The one controller comes with a 70 amp relay for your fan. My fan literature says I should use 70 amps total. The controller company says you need to add a second relay if you want to use Low and High (or dual fans). Does that mean I would need another 70 amp relay, or would a smaller one do the job? Would a 70 amp relay be safer? As I understand it, the higher the amp rating a FUSE has, the LESS protected a circuit is. Is the opposite true of relays?

most 2 speed single fans are like this: draw a circle (like a pie), then draw a line thru it dead center (cut the pie in half) those two poles are the high speed portion of the fan. now cut another slice of pie from one of the halves, this would be the low speed portion of the fan. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine the low speed would take less amperage to start-up and run., but you definitely need another relay.
so far as fuse protection goes, the fuse is located nearest the power supply, a high amperage circuit is always going to have heavier wiring for the heavier load it carries. the fuse is there to protect the wiring. in a way you are correct, like a wire chafing against the body, but on the other hand you wouldn't use a 70 amp fuse for a dome light.
there are some relay connectors available, and most have the amperage rating in the specification sheet, the crimp on spades are less reliable for higher loads due to vibration of the wires, if you use crimp on spades, make sure they are tight on the relay-NO wiggling.

Oh, you mean using just spade connectors instead of a purpose made relay connector, I see. It looks like Dakota Digital makes relays that come with connectors for not ridiculous money. I'd be okay with going that route. And if having two 70 amp relays is better than having two 30 amp relays, so much the better. No reason to cheap out on the relay if I'm going for a quality controller.

Frankly I'm surprised the Dakota Digital controller is so affordable. It's about on par with other controllers with comparable features. Their gauges are SO expensive! They have these gauge panels that take the place of the entire instrument cluster in either Fox body dash. They're REALLY cool, and I'd love to have one, but the price is just in the stratosphere. I can't justify it.

well prices do fluctuate, and sometimes prices from alternate vendors who sell their products are cheaper than the manufacuctuers, not long ago the hammer shifter from B&M was down to $165 or so  from jegs. why don't you try looking at summit, jegs, amazon etc to see if their products are cheaper. the ididit steering columns are cheaper online than from ididit.
I think those digital dashes are pretty cool.

Haha, yeah I'll do some shopping around. Right now I just need to get the fan controller past "the committee", haha. The more I think about it, the more it bugs me the amp capacity on my existing one isn't even close to what the fan manufacturer says you need. This fan was expensive, I don't want to fry it!

I have found that to be true more often than not, actually. Volume retailers are almost always cheaper than the manufacturer. The manufacturer has no reason to have sales, so they just stick to the MSRP for things.

You know what I don't understand about those steering columns? Why bother? They're always talking about how it's so great you can get these new steering columns for muscle cars and old trucks and stuff on Powerblock. Why? What's wrong with the original? I mean, I know they're a sponsor, so that has a lot to do with it, but they replace steering columns a lot more often than I would think you need to. Sure, maybe if you don't have one to start with, but otherwise why? Especially chrome ones. Why in the world would you do that unless maybe you have a street rod?

ihad a nova come in once for a "refresh", they said it had a binding steering problem, it turned out to be a bearing in the steering column, no parts were available for this car (thankfully), I don't fancy tanking apart a gm steering column, never did it before, so since the junk yard price was about the same price as a new one......
one day when I grow up, I'm going to start buying aftermarket stuff like fans, radios etc.