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 dash install

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fangar150-ex



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PostSubject: dash install    Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:35 pm

Well i have been as busy as the heat and my knee will allow. I’m doing another resurrection of this heap, this will cost me a few HP in the beginning, but will hopefully pay off in the future, i am finally installing a 4.6 litre engine.
I am putting a SN95 dash in the car also, which has been a real bug-bar so far and is holding things up.
I was doing a dry fit test the other day, so bolted in the right side and shut the passenger door to see if it fit ok, and it pretty much did, so i got a jack stand out and propped up the dash on the driver side to see roughly how much i need to cut off, it looked ok, so i took some measurements for the first cut, i was pleased, and decided to shut the driver door to see how it looked, it looked ok-ish, however it was very hot outside and it was time  to make an exit. Unfortunately both windows were up and i couldn’t even see the door handles as they were behind the dash, i had no cell phone and although i could see my drink on the hood, it was untouchable. I tried the shift the jack stand but it was solid and too much other stuff was in the car. I unbolted the right side and when the dash finally rolled i was able to shift it away from the door/window handles.
I suppose i need to find a set of power window regulators, I’ve always wanted them, just never see a set. Even so i didn’t have a battery in the car, or switches.
I’m beginning to think this may have been another not so good idea, but everything can always be changed, and changed and changed again like it has been since i’ve had the car, eventually I’ll be able to stop drilling holes and use the ones that are there!!!!
While everyone else is out burning gasoline, my stuff is scattered out in piles.
I had considered using the new shape dash, but the expense is ridiculous at the moment, and i really need a/c.
I’m taking some pix as i go along, just in case anyone else wants to try this. I’ll post them when i have something to post.
I must say the fox body Mustang dash swap is almost a direct fit, however the Sn 95 dash in the early Fairmont’s IS NOT. Maybe the ones with a pcm would be a bit easier.
All in all, once the dash is in, things should progress, but considering the surprises i’ve already had, maybe not!!
It is good therapy.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:15 pm

Haha, you wrestling that dash around by yourself reminds me of so many things I've done on my car. Wait for someone to help me? Nah, I wanna get it done! My car is still at the shop for the subframe install. I haven't even SEEN it in 3 weeks! haha. You're not alone in not driving yours either. Mine's been a pile of parts for 7 years! Slap it together for Car Craft Summer Nats once a year, and then tear it apart again because something still isn't right. I'm getting pretty sick of that.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:51 pm

Strange you mention that last line….this car has been a test bed for my imagination since I’ve had it. i shoed mike the 88 mustang i was originally going to do the 4.6 and dash install in. but like i said to him it costs a lot to put the cars right if a load of parts are missing, headlights taillights etc.
As the later mustangs had an ECU installed, they were slightly wider in the lower A-pillar area, i should have remembered that from the 5.0 install, however this time when i tried to charm the monkey out of his banana, his mother came over and kicked me straight in the knackers.
I can’t seem to line the dash up properly in the driver side A-pillar, and to add insult to injury, i will have a gap where the console meets the dash unless i want to lose the defroster. I have cut the main support pipe which also doubles as an A/C duct, trimmed the hell out of the left side mounts. A lot of guys who do this in the mustangs are losing the defroster ducts when they swap the dashes, that’s not an option for me, so i’ll have to live with the gaps, i suppose a dash mat may conceal some of the rougher areas across the top of the dash where it meets the windshield.
I suppose my wife is getting better, she asked me why I’m changing the dash again as the other one fit the car and it looked ok. I tried to tell her the A/C wouldn’t work as the evaporators were different and they probably would not swap-out, and i like the batman double hump dash. What was wrong with the other engine, it seemed to run ok….blah blah blah.
Well i’m committed now, or will be committed…….if i don’t finish this job, so i’ll carry on.
I really won’t care about the gaps in the console or dash in the beginning as i’ll be looking for all kinds of stuff on the maiden voyage, does it drive straight, stop well, how does it handle and for a while after, i’ll be sniffing for smells; coolant, oil, cylinder misfires, check engine light etc. when i get the exhaust done then i’ll be listening for chassis rattles etc.
I put the SN95 rack & pinion in this early yesterday morning and i also found 2 steering shafts for the sn95, so i figured when i got the dash in today, I’d throw the column in for a dry fit, and it lined up ok!!!
I just cant figure out why i have a gap on the left side and not on the right side, i cant go any further forward-oh well, the console and the fox body shifter holes lined up pretty well so I’ll have to accept it, it’s just annoying.
Last time it was a pain installing the parking brakes, wiring, shifter and dash all at the same time, this time i have half the work to do but i seem to be moaning more, maybe I’m getting too old for this stuff???? Or maybe I’m too anal or just expecting too much, maybe it’s just too dammed hot.
Back in the dealership, its dash out…..fix the problem, dash in….. no problem, here at my house the drive is slanted pretty steep, it’s hot, nothing fits right first time, no air compressor, no welder, everything is scattered-out, gotta stop for This, gotta stop for that, gotta find this or that, gotta go shopping etc. but in a strange kinda way, i’m fairly happy.it should ride like an old lady’s LTD when it’s finished (even with the gap in the dash)
Hats-off to Mike (fox81) from Tucson for getting the 5.0 fox stuff out of my garage, now i have a lot more room.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:13 pm

Haha, sweet. Could you maybe shim the console somehow to make it line up better? I'll bet yours will be the only F/Z with that dash when you're done.

And you know, for all the trouble my air compressor is, I really don't use it that much like a dealership mechanic might. For spinning down most bolts, I'll almost always reach for a hand tool. I'm just too clumsy. I'm worried about breaking stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:54 am

It’s a really strange situation with this left side A pillar gap, i can’t seem to get rid of it; however the defroster vents and console line-up???????
I need to get on some of these other sites and see how they do this swap.
Maybe if you stopped working on this car and just drove the thing, you could figure out what you want to fix, and make a list. Once i got the thing running, I drove the hell out of mine. As i went along, there were a few things that needed to be rectified, however i kept pushing till i got it right. I seem to think i had an issue with the egr or egr sensor in the beginning giving an intermittent idle concern, or maybe it was a vacuum hose leak, but it drove me nuts till i found it.
Good luck on the wheels, i just wanted to let you know that discount tires sell those DRAG wheels, sometimes they have pretty good sales on.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:12 pm

Are you test fitting the dash with the steering column in place? Perhaps they moved it to the right a little bit on the SN95. I know for sure the engine bay is a little different on them based on how much trouble it was to install that SN95 brake booster in my car.

I do drive it, but I get annoyed with the stuff that bothers me about it pretty quickly, and at that point i'd rather let it sit until I can fix it, especially if it's something major. For example, my idle issue. It often stalls at lights, and that's embarrassing for me. Cuz you know with a car that unusual and that loud, who are the other drivers going to be looking at? Me. Another example, the fuel gauge not working. I don't know about you, but I don't like to run out of gas, haha. Or the speedometer not working. That's just tempting fate. You don't know how fast you're going, say there's no other cars on the road and a cop appears behind you. You're already conspicuous driving an older car, and he's just WAITING for you to do something wrong.

Thanks for the tip on the wheels! There's one by me, so I'll have to go down there! It sure would be easier to buy them from a tire shop than order them online.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:23 pm

It often stalls at lights, and that's embarrassing for me. Cuz you know with a car that unusual and that loud, who are the other drivers going to be looking at? Me

just for the hell of it, humor me; block off the vacuum line to the egr valve with a small bolt or twig, the old 5.0's had a problem with the egr valve spring inside going weak and causing all sorts of problems, even shifting problems, just block the line off & see.

Or the speedometer not working. That's just tempting fate.

I have had so many different gears in my car, 2.26, 2.80, 3.73 &  now 3.08 I had to use my Garmin till the sun cooked it, and had to use the Magellan in the end because I hate pulling the speed sensor and swapping the driven gear, each tooth is worth aprox 5mph, but after a point the plastic gears start to wear faster.
If you are keeping the same rear end in for a while you can get with atc and come up with a drive gear adaptor that will mate your trans drive gear to the speed of your car, or just use the GPS I hated the 3.73 with a c4 it would snap out of the box, but would run out of puff and rev it's ass off at high speeds.
I hate running out of gas! the baffle/reservoir tank in my car broke loose, and it would starve on heavy right hand turns when cornering if the fuel level was low. once I had to go to an appointment at the oncologist with my wife, the car was parked on a heavy slant, and it wouldn't start, luckily I caught a ride and made it in time, I dare not tell my wife even today!!!! no gas-not goood.

maybe that's the attraction with these old cars, you can always bet something aint gonna be right.

no I left the steering column out, I did test fit it to check the length, and even that came up near perfect-that sucks. I gotta walk way away from it and do some thinking, or just get a custom dash mat, both sound good. i'll try later, but there is no more room to move as too many other things line up....???????XXXXXXXX. i'll do my 4am 4.30 am look round and maybe it will hit me, not like on Saturday evening, (left a nice little bruise when it fell on my cheekbone).
the 93 mustang dash was a walk in the park, oh well. so far the only consolation I have had was when I put the speedo/cluster in and I saw 27k or 29k miles on it, even so, i'm still not pleased.
I have got to take some measurements for Mike Fox 81 for the shifter hole distance. I gave him a pattern piece I cut out of one of my mustangs to help out and the parking brake cable "hole".
I don't have any good wiper motors for his car, but I remember you said you used your Fairmont wiper motor with your mustang dash, perhaps you can lend him some info for that little mod.
he seems to be keeping the 4 lug set-up for the time being, and that will cut down on some of the work. I like Mike, he seems to think things thru, I gave him my "blue Book" with all the info I had so far as wiring and code scanning is concerned. I have got to get him all the pix I can find, any help will be appreciated I'm sure. maybe you could thro a few in also.
he's gonna have his hands full like we did, bit it should be pretty much plug & play for the most part I hope.
for reals tho, try to block off the egr, see what happens.
have a great evening.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:21 pm

I did fix the speedometer now, so we're good to go on that. The fuel gauge is on my list for this year. I "fixed" it once already, but I think the float must just be stuck. I'll have to try bending the arm differently.

My EGR is long gone. The vacuum line that runs to it is plugged. The only emission thingies that are still on the motor are the PCV and carbon canister.

The wiper motor is a super-easy fix. The wire colors are all the same. You just match the colors and splice them. There's an extra ground with the Mustang wiring that need to go to chassis ground. That's the only trick. The reason I had trouble with it was my Zeph wiring was so faded, I couldn't tell the wires were the same colors.

I know what you mean about needing to walk away. That's why I didn't work so well in a pro shop. That's not an option there, haha.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:13 am

cool on the wiring of the wiper motor.
wow that's a lot of stuff to get rid of!!! is there some sort of vacuum leak?
is the idle speed controller working ok.
does the check engine light work properly, not just when you start the car does it come on & go off?try pulling off the IAT & ECT sensors at the frt of the intake manifold just to see if the check eng light does comes on.
the check eng light is supported by the grey/red strip wire.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:26 am

Haha. some of it was gone when I got the engine. TAB and TAD were gone for sure. Makes for a much cleaner look under the hood! There may be a vacuum leak. I've looked all over for one, but have yet to find one. Pretty sure the IAC works. I did that test where you steer all the way to one side and see if the idle rises, and it did. Pretty sure the Check Engine light works too. I have a little diagnostic tester thingy. Half the time when I run KOEO, the test times out and fails. It's pretty annoying.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:25 pm

do you have a manual trans pcm, I seem to remember that a non working park/neutral sw on the automatics would give a crappy idle.
took my dash frame over to the fabricator for welding, he was unable to determine a solution for getting rid of the gap and keeping the defrost vents. says to use a dash mat!!!
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:58 am

It's an A9P, but I've wired the neutral safety circuit to the clutch switch, so the engine won't start unless the clutch is in. Not to say that solves the issue, I don't really know, but at least it builds that intended safety back into the system. Also, the idle problems started long before I swapped the T-5 in.

What if you were to cut the defroster vents out of the dash and somehow "splice" the '87-93 defroster vents onto the new dash, just farther in so it fits better? As I recall, the defroster vents on the older dash are a separate piece that snaps in. just make a place on the newer dash for it to snap into!
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:23 am

what happens if you were to hold the clutch in, does it smooth out??

yeah I had considered a similar remedy, however the positioning shape and location of the vents is WAY different. i'll give it another shot this weekend. we are going thru the monsoon season now, so wind and rain in the evenings, hot & humid during the day.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:07 am

Nope. Makes no difference. Most of the time when it stalls, I'm sitting at a light with the clutch in.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:25 pm

I think I have an A9L computer here somewhere, would you like to try it out if I can find it, do you have mass air?? I believe the car it came out of had mass air. Try to scan it for codes first, you can do it with the check eng light and a piece of wire, and just watch for the blinks on the check eng light. this is also a good test to see if the wiring is intact.

Well Friday night was unusually cool so i decided to capitalize and took the opportunity to dry fit the frame only, not only was it a lot lighter, but it offered the opportunity to see any reason for the gap on the left side.  i had the frame welded where i had done some cutting on the left  to allow the dash to center and go forward. I noticed that there was red paint shavings on the dash frame where it was welded, i was able to bend the metal tabs in a bit towards the middle of the frame, allowing the dash frame to fit further in on the left side. (i could not see this with the dash pad installed.)
I put the dash pad back on and tried the assembly again, it fits much better. There is still a small gap on the left side, but it is good enough for me at this time.
I managed to fit the tunnel mounts in temporarily with self-tapping sheet metal screws and made a couple of stiffening braces for the frame to body, (that was easy…..)Now the dash is pretty solid and shouldn’t rattle or squeak.
So i have the fabricator coming over sometime this week to do some welding for the braces and the tunnel mounts. Once the welding is done, i have to remove it all and install the PCM wiring on the right side, (that’s going to be fun….) then reinstall the A/C plenum along with a new heater core. As i know the frame is good to go, i can take the measurements from the black & brown dash pad that i have already cut and transfer the measurements and cut the black & grey dash pad that i will be using for the car, and then i can reinstall the wiring and ducting to the dash frame and be done with that part of the dash swap.
I already have the brake pedal installed and the holes were checked for alignment for the hydro boost.
As with the mustangs, i will be losing some of the length on the inner door handles or lowering them to the bottom of the door panel like the early fox mustangs, (as Mike Fox 81 says)which i hope will leave some room for the speakers, if not, i can just use the rear speakers.
Barring the incident when the dash fell and hit me in the cheek, the job has gone pretty well.
Obviously there will be more holes to cut for other wiring , fuel lines & speed control on the inner aprons, but once the dash is in, I’m hoping things will progress at a faster pace.
I don’t regret doing this install, but i should have started early fall as this summer has been really hot, and now we have the monsoons.
I’m sending the carpet off next week to have it cleaned; they will be putting some plastic shield/covers on it so i can work on the car without soiling the carpet. The carpet was soiled during the accident, so it would be easier to have it cleaned now than later.
I have the driver seat almost done, however i have to test the motors out ,if they are junk  i will swap over to manual seats, however I’m still debating whether to install lumbar or not.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:05 pm

well the driver seat works just fine, just needed a few smart raps from a rubber mallet, maybe I'll just leave it alone for now as the cushions in place, the covers are clean and fit well.
I decided to dry-fit the hydro-boost, it fits perfect, plenty of clearance with the wiper motor, however I believe it is a 93 cougar wiper motor and I had to alter its position and clocking to allow the hood to shut ??
I'll need to pull the h/boost out so I can run the wiring, it's just nice to know that's 2 less things to worry about.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:52 am

Exciting stuff! Moving along!
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:13 pm

Sounds like you are making some progress! It'll look great once you have it all in place, plus the 4.6 will be pretty sweet once it's all buttoned up.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:53 pm

it was a difficult decision to remove the 5.0 and the dash after all that work, however I want to try something different. if nothing else it should sound different!
When you get yours running we need to burn some gasoline and a bit of rubber.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:14 am

haven't done anything to the car this week due to rain, the only thing I was able to do was check for leaks around the a/c unit into the car, as we are having the monsoons and the rain is pretty heavy, it was a relief not to see any water on the floor, having said so, it is also parked on a slant, in the drive.
I was worried about the hydro boost not fitting against the apron; it actually fits perfect. it actually fits better than the other booster/master cyl combo's I've done in the past.
I must say if you choose to do this at home, you will need to re-drill the holes because the booster mounting stud positions changed in '94 with the introduction of the SN95.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:53 pm

They certainly did...
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:41 am

hey; I was doing a set of valve cover gaskets on a 5.0 and when I took the intake manifold off I noticed that the main pipe at the rear of the intake with the two small fittings for the fuel press regulator and tab/tab and a large one for the booster was loose, there was also wetness around the threads, I wonder if that pipe being loose could cause your idle issue. sorry to give you more work to do, but I thought is was worth noting.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:45 pm

fangar150-ex wrote:
it was a difficult decision to remove the 5.0 and the dash after all that work, however I want to try something different. if nothing else it should sound different!
When you get yours running we need to burn some gasoline and a bit of rubber.

That we can do! All of that hard work will have a good home in my Zephyr, it will finally be nice to start building it and getting it exactly to where I want it to be.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:08 pm

I've had the intake off before though. It's a different one than the one that came on the engine. This one is painted silver and looks a whole lot better.
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PostSubject: Re: dash install    Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:29 am

Been really busy at work this week and with the rain, I’m not getting anything done on my car.
The car I’ve been working on needs a trunk pan, couldn’t find a new one, so we got a used one, the guy who sold it to us didn’t know how much of the pan to cut out, so he sent the whole back half of the car!!!
I was trying to find a way to get the pan out when i noticed that this car had an electric fuel filler flap, and all the parts are there for it, including the solenoid and fuel flap puller string!!
I’m going to try to pull the pieces out to see if i can fit them to the Fairmont, which would be way over the top cool if i could have an electric fuel filler flap with a cap-less fuel filler pipe.
Here I am going on about stuff that doesn’t matter, or may not work and i haven’t even fitted the dash or any of the wiring yet, but that’s all part of the fun.
however it would be more fun to drive the car again.......
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