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Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:22 pm by ZephyrEFI

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 2015 Project Thread!

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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:26 am

I guess it's like today, you get a new car, you want to enjoy yourself, so you pound it into the ground, I don't think I ever saw anyone buy a car and sit on it like they do today. had I known things would go like they have, I would have bought a few myself. Unfortunately nobody wants an 05 v-6 manual mustang convertible with low miles, they just don't sell.
But today you can go out and see a challenger pull the driveshaft out of a Camaro, so the Camaro guy will go and pick on a kid with a hover-board to boost his ego claiming it was a close race, until the battery blew in the hover-board.
I hate to see v-6 versions of modern muscle loaded with dual exhaust and all the bling thinking in their minds they can run with the big dogs, it just doesn't work and it makes you look bad.
Truth is; everyone has the right to be proud of their car or truck, we have people that come into the dealership and still maintain their cars because they like them, an older gentleman has a 95 presidential Town car and is trying to get it up to scratch. He has spent a few bones and is trying, he loves the car, so when I see him I always ask him what he’s done lately, last time he had a nice stereo installed with a back-up camera, I know it cost a lot and he’s not loaded, so we always try to help. Yeah; imagine a town car with over 200k new engine and trans, axles, wheel brgs , brakes, little by little he’s going to get there.
Whats it worth: nothing….whats it worth to him-priceless!
We have a kid who works on the lube rack, and he bought a mid to late 80’s IROC Camaro in pieces, no dash etc, a true refuge from the bone-yard, but most of the pieces were there including the engine and trans. He has been trying to get it running because he needs a car. Everybody had been laughing at it, fuel problems, charging problems,the dash is in the back seat etc, I thought it was a hybrid, because he has to charge it up to get home and charge it up to get to work. So a couple of Fridays ago, now again it wouldn’t run, and he was broke. We had a slow day in the shop and we decided to push it in late in the afternoon, and we all kinda chipped in, various people on various jobs at the same time, it looked like a pit stop at Le-mans. A spare part here another spare part there, I wired the charging system, Richard did the fuel system, Donald did the carb linkage work, all kinds of stuff was done it was a really cool experience, then we chipped in for fuel, and he’s been on the road since and hasn’t broke down again yet. Is he proud-I don’t know, but he is MOBILE.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:44 pm

A lot of people wouldn't see a Fairmont/Zephyr as that different from that Town Car, haha.

But that's why older people are the best to get cars from. They are easy on them, and keep them maintained! I certainly count my blessings that's who owned my Zeph!

Cool story about the Camaro too! That does sound like fun! Does he know they're currently building an IROC on Detroit Muscle right now? Kind of a cool, low budget build.

The thing about V6 pony cars of today though is, they can smoke most V8 versions older than 10 years easily. When the 3.7 came out for 2011, it was ALMOST as fast as a 2010 GT! A Fox GT wouldn't have a chance! So, they do back it up somewhat. I think part of the reason they're doing that is more value for your money. Mustangs cost so much more now than they did 30 years ago, relative to other cars. Even today's base V8 versions are WAY over the top compared to their '80s equivalents.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:06 am

I don't think he was looking for any particular car, it just came up. He knows it's going to be an uphill road.
True some v-6 non turbos are quite fast on their own, not to mention the turbo versions. my focus was mainly on the older 04 and below mustang v-6 with the spoilers, cobra wheels ETC.
I work at a dealership and don't even know what a new mustang costs, but I know that some of the F150's are knocking on 60k depending how much bling you want. have you seen the options for these trucks♠¢♥£♫♥½☼!
I was amazed at the power produced by the turbo v6 F150; however I would opt for the new 5.0 because I like the v-8 engines.
My own next dream engine is the 3 valve, I don't know why, but I like the note the engine produces with a good exhaust, not loud, but a good mellow exhaust.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:15 pm

I said to someone just the other day, "There's no worse way to illegitimize a Ford product than to put a Cobra badge on a car that obviously isn't one," haha. So you're talking about cars that guys have actually customized to make look like a V8 version. I agree then. That IS super lame.

And yeah, F150s are priced in the stratosphere these days. But people seem willing to pay it, so as far as I'm concerned, whatever helps them keep making Mustangs. I certainly have no intention of buying an F150. Not only are they too expensive, they are too BIG. Ford was smart though to start with a turbo V6 that feels really strong rather than maximizing efficiency. It was the perfect way to win converts from the V8. "really, you don't think the EcoBoost would do the work of a V8? Just drive one." Especially before the 5.0L came out. The 3.5 was SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than those V8s. Now that the turbo V6 has gained acceptance, Ford can start dialing in the efficiency and get their emissions and mileage numbers down. Brilliant! I'm with you though. I'd still want the V8.

I don't see why you couldn't dig up a 3-valve from a truck for cheap. There's a ton of them out there.

This year's car budget keeps diminishing as time goes on. Not only will we need a lot of the tax refund money for the kids' hospital stays, we'll need some for paying for school ongoing. I'm definitely doing the brakes and fuel system though. Those are non-negotiable. Maybe this way though, I can spend more time enjoying the car, rather than having it torn apart this summer. A big reason why I have it is for family bonding after all!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:22 am

Well things are looking up. We have our refund coming now and things aren't nearly as bad as I thought. I'm putting together my estimate for "the committee" to ratify! Things are getting real!

I think I'll be able to swing just about everything else I wanted to do besides the rebuild/cam/tune. So, that'll be brakes, fuel/evap problem fix, carpet, window tint, and alternator upgrade! Then it'll be time to start a new thread, 2016 projects!

Hope all is well with you!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:15 am

sounds like you have a plan, I'm glad you seem to have tasking's on the brew. I'm sitting low so far as any spending goes for multiple reasons. I/ve got so many things going on around me I cant seem to get anything accomplished or even focus.
it's going to get better, it will just take some time. still cant seem to locate the correct mirror, I have to admit I haven't really tried too hard, but I would have thought i would  have finished that task by now.
I haven't even started on the Nissan wiring job yet.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:58 am

i just looked at LMR, that alternator kit is $209!! i'd pounce on that myself if I had a 5.0. that is cheap for what you get, and a lifetime warr on the alternator! uou cant build a kit that cheap.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:53 pm

I know, that kit's a good deal! Seems like the SVE stuff usually is, which makes me kind of wonder, but it's more complete than anything else I found and just makes it so easy.

I talked to that guy that has the full stock accessory drive for me, and he's just about ready to start his project so I can have them. He says they're really nice and everything. Then I can get my power steering pump turning at the speed it's supposed to be so I can figure out of I've still got a problem or not. AND, I can get that A/C kit and put it on! That's going to be SO great.

The whole resolution (yearly car project estimate) passed the committee, so we're a go for A/C, brakes, fuel system, Alternator upgrade, new carpet, and a wheelskin. Wheelskins are sweet. It's a real leather wrap for your steering wheel that adds thickness, and you stitch it on so it looks stock!

I know what it's like to be overwhelmed. That's a bummer.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:02 am

If your p/trg pump is spinning slower than designed it Can make the strg stiff at low speeds, and if the alternator is spinning slower; well you know the deal. I’m not worried about saving a couple of hp as I’ve never been THAT serious about racing.
Back in the day guys used to delete the cooling fans, install alternator cut-outs, delete the power strg or add a bigger pulley, get rid of the 3 spd trans and add a 4 speed transmission, automatics got a B&M shift kit or trans-pack, posi traction or welded spiders, add bigger coils, delete the vacuum advance and set the timing to ABOUT 36 degrees, bigger 4 barrels, headers, bigger cams, hi rise intakes, head swaps, fat/skinny tires, etc. to start some of the high compression crazy cam cars they added an ignition cut out to allow the points style ign system to be turned off so you could get the engine cranking up to speed without detonation or blowing the starter off the veh or damaging the ring gear, and then switch the ignition on,( it usually made a loud pop when it lit the fuel in the exhaust).
Later on it all changed to electric cooling fans as the engines would overheat in traffic, get rid of power strg completely, lose the booster and go to manual master cylinders with large bores, went to electronic ignition, suspension tuning got introduced along with radial tires and abunch of other stuff.
Then electronic fuel injection came along and the WHOLE seen changed, and is still changing daily. Today is definitely better!
If you think about the mods to your car over the years, are you ever going to be happy with it??? Or are you just expressing your creativity. I feel both ways, happy and content, and I got real good at changing frt & rear springs, wiring, eng swaps etc. it’s better than an American Express Card which is priceless.
it's been interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:08 pm

Yeah, the only reason I went to underdrives was it was a complete system I happened to have laying around (don't remember how I ended up with it) that allowed me to clean up the front of the engine after I deleted the old busted-ass 5.0 A/C. It's definitely been more trouble than it's been worth though. For example, several times having to request a specific length serp belt, rather than a stock one, and potentially having to visit several stores to find one. Screw that. I'm done with it. The last time I bought another belt, it was almost immediately fouled with stray coolant. It still squeaks to this day! Argh!! Talk about frustrating!

In the beginning, I was of the attitude i'll take whatever cheap performance gain I can get, but now I look at it more like the mods that come with serious compromises, like underdrives and manual brakes and steering and stuff like that aren't worth it. I'd much rather have the everyday practicality than the few HP you gain doing those things.

My brother's old race car was VERY old school like that, although with a few more modern twists like electric fans and water pump. And even after all he did, (stripped interior, full cage, back-half with giant slicks, TOTALLY not road legal or comfortable in the slightest way, it was only certified to run 11s. LAME, haha. These days you can go to your local Ford dealer, buy a new Mustang GT, slap some drag radials on and run 11s all day! That is, until the track kicks you out and says don't come back without a cage, haha.

I do see an end game for my car. Once I get the brakes and fuel system straightened out, A/C added, alternator upgraded, new carpet, windows tinted, wheelskin added... I've got a few more changes to make this year. I never did end up adding the shoulder belts to the rear last year, but I did collect all the parts to do it. So, I'll do that and put that remote start kit I have in probably this year...

Eventually I'd like to see the shortblock rebuilt, do some kind of cam swap, and try and tune the ECM. I'd really like to do the LTD/Marquis nose swap. Although, I'll need some big help from someone with a welder. At that point, I HOPE I will be able to call it done. Everything should be in good working order, and the car will look like I want it to. But, really I think I could be happy not doing those things for a while. The engine does run fine now (although I haven't done a compression check since putting the new heads on), and the car looks like it's supposed to as a stock Zephyr. On the outside at least, haha.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:23 am

Funny. I remember when high 13's and low 14's were good stuff! spark plugs were 12k service interval, points always needed changing adjusting, yeahthe old cars are fine to remember, but with todays cars you don't need a tool box, WD-40, stack of spare tires. Today’s cars have disc brakes, airbags, catalytic convertors, they start in the rain & damp conditions, use half the fuel, have GPS, yeah, much better.
Yeah the Goodyear Poly-glas, Firestone wide oval, the red stripe tires, were all good in the day; however by today’s tires, they would be substandard.
I like different older cars for different reasons, mainly the styles, the only thing is, I like to change things around them, kinda mix & match….I’ve never considered a true restoration on anything.
I’m certain when they build a car at the factory; they try to get it right for the mainstream of society, not nut cases. They are packed full of goodies, they ride nice, are quiet, comfortable and reliable everything the Fairmont & zephyrs weren’t. In fact I do need a newer car soon, not sure what to go with, definitely not a mustang, so we’ll have to see.
I’m hoping you get all your tasks done early this year so you can put some miles on it and and enjoy it for a while.
So I guess the better the new cars get, (up to a certain point) the more parts we have to add to our cars and we should take advantage.

If the Fairmont’s and Zephyr’s were built like ours, they’d be worth a fortune now! I’d like to do more things to mine and it will happen when time & money cross paths. Sometimes I wish I would have kept the white box top, I could have had 2 injected Fairmont’s.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:53 pm

We sure have liked our newer Fords we've had recently. Everything from our '07 Fusion and Milan on up, they've all been really solid and enjoyable to drive! I love flinging our '14 Focus around. That thing is a blast to drive. it responds to your inputs so predictably, it feels like there's nothing you can't do! And that's just a regular run of the mill compact! I'm sure you drive them all the time for work though.

Yeah, I've been thinking a bit more about what I would do if I ever get my (ahem, excuse me, my WIFE'S) '70-71 Cyclone. What would I modify on it? I really don't feel like I would do much at least at first. Most likely the car we'd end up with would be a Montego though, so i'd want to make some changes to make it look like a Cyclone. The Cyclone grille treatment with the hidden headlights for sure. The one for sale locally has a vinyl roof, so that for sure would need to go... Maybe just other than that, a manual if it doesn't have one, and some wheels. Oh, and the Spoiler stripe package. I have NO qualms about building a clone, haha. A correct restoration? What fun would that be?! haha

Getting another car would certainly hasten my Zeph's gaining "finished" status though. The Montego wouldn't need to be a long distance cruiser because that's what the Zeph would be for! This is all probably years away, but it's fun to dream.

A correct restoration on a Fairmont/Zephyr is such a laughable idea, it's hardly on the radar. A correct restoration on ANY car from that time period really, haha. There's a guy on FourEyed Pride who has a '80 notchback Mustang with the 6 that he's doing a correct restoration on. To each his own, I guess, but all I can do is sit there and think "why? why? why?! Why would anyone EVER do that?!" haha

Yeah, my tasks for this years SHOULDN'T be that complicated, knock on wood. I'd sure like to spend the summer enjoying it. Although, I just found out if I want to swap from SVO/Lincoln rear discs to SN95 rear discs, I need different axle shafts!! Can you believe that crap? There's like a 1/2" difference per side! No wonder I had such a rubbing issue with the 17x8" wheels.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:51 am

correct on the rear axles! correct on the clone...I cant see why not. my first alteration would be fuel injection, a car from that era deserves fuel injection, power windows/locks/trunk, 4 wheel disc brakes, a hefty front and rear roll bar, posi. 68 /9 mustang wheels silver or black, and no vinyl roof...
I like the spoilers from that era, however they all seem to be about the same which may work to your advantage.
what color would you choose or would you keep it as it is?
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:03 pm

I found some axles locally that are supposed to be in good shape, so that's good.

Well, see as much as I'd like to do all that stuff to a Montego... well maybe I'd do it if I didn't have the Zeph... It's just that those things aren't as easy or cheap on a car that age as they are on a Fox. For EFI, I'd probably want one of those new self-learning TBI ones so I could keep the engine looking like it's supposed to (Round air cleaner on top, rather than a SEFI plenum). As for the suspension and brakes, if you did those changes the affordable way with the Lincoln Versailles disc brakes and stock Ford stuff, it would never drive as nice as the Zeph. So, I'd probably be more inclined to leave it alone until I have some disposable income, if ever, haha. I guess though if I found myself tinkering with the carb to keep it running all the time, that would probably move up my timetable. I don't know crap about carbs, haha.

The vinyl roof would definitely have to go though. And that's a good choice with the Mustang wheels. I might add Magnum 500s or slot mags to the list of possibilities too.

That bright red car, i'd probably leave that color, but most of the other colors the plain Montegos came in are lame. I'd probably expect to have to paint it, so I'd go for one of the Grabber colors, Green or Blue probably. Now that Grabber Blue was available on the newer Mustangs, you see that plenty though. I love Grabber Green too, so that would probably be my top choice. Something loud and flamboyant that would never work on a Zeph, haha.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:24 am

you can go onto wheel vintiques, they have all sorts of wheels including the magnums. i'd like to see more of these cars on the road, they played a big part in history, yet you hardly see them.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:32 pm

I know, I'm pretty sure I've only seen one in real life. At least the basic body shell of the Torino notchback is pretty similar, if not the same, if I need parts.

I'll check that page out! I've always wanted a car I can put slot mags on, too... They wouldn't look right on a Zeph.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:32 am

I just lost a large write up on the brakes, I should have used word & copied it.
just check the length the of the Lincoln axle housings are the same as a fox, I think they are, but do yourself a favor and just check, otherwise the operation will fail.

I wish (may have) may have used a USB drive to copy all the axle/housing widths, brake combo's that work, if I do and I find it quickly i'll post it for you,
it's got some wicked info that does work.....
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:02 pm

Oh geez, bummer. I'll definitely take measurements. And once I have the 2 sets of axle shafts together, it should be pretty obvious if they're different or not, haha. You know, I wonder if I have the shorter axle shafts and that's the real reason my stupid Lincoln/SVO brakes never seem to work right... At this point nothing would surprise me. I've tried to force so many different combinations of pieces that don't actually fit together (either knowingly or not) in this big Fox body jigsaw puzzle...

What are your thoughts on ceramic brake pads? I ordered some brake parts from Napa and the guy said ceramic pads are the only ones he can get for the '95 GT application for some reason. I don't think I've ever used them.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:54 am

You’ll be just fine with ceramic pads, stop good, don’t fade much with hard braking, low noise & dirt.
The reason I wrote about the axle housings and axle lengths, is that you gotta get it right.
There is info out there on the standard fox 8.8 housing widths and the 94-98 mustang axle lengths, there should be info in the MKVII housing widths. Maybe try lincolnsonline.com.
I’ve seen too many guys go out and buy stuff that wont work, so I think remember from the 79-98 fox mustangs all had the same axle housings were the same widths, just check, and see if the width of you MKII axle housing is the same, I believe it is, just can’t remember.
79-93 rear axle shafts came in 4 lugs were the same length, (but there was also the SVO option in 5 lug which I am unfamiliar)
94-98 axle shafts were ¾ in longer and this is what you need for the discs brake set-up. So you will have a 1.5in wider rear track than stock, which is good.
Be sure to get the 28 spline axle shafts, not the 31 spline. 31spline were mainly for trucks like rangers. There are kits for 31spline, but your car doesn’t have the nuts to warrant the 31 spline axles. I tried to change some spider gears to 31 spline once with no success, cant remember why, just didn’t work, musta done something wrong again….
I’ve kinda stepped aside from this stuff recently as the money pools dried up, and now there is only waterspots, I haven’t bought any junk cars in over 2 years, plus I just don’t have ANY time. I do see that a lot of guys are buying various kits online for different reasons like warranty, everything comes with the kit, easy instructions, and they get a sticker in the kit that says SUMMIT, JEGS, LMR etc. it gets rid of all the thinking or worrying, you just buy the kit and bolt it on with all new parts. In some cases like your alternator kit, it actually works out cheaper than buying it piece-meal, unless you use the junk yard. Sometimes you get bit with the prices, sometimes you come up trumps. I’m a hard headed old gentleman, and I make my own mistakes.
I know when you get these tasks performed they will be correct and work well, because you always do your research and get it right.
I don’t know if you can use or modify the parking brake cables from Lincoln on the fox, that’s something for you to look into.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:01 pm

It's too bad the "track width" spec is so useless. I guess the way it's measured varies, and the offset of your wheels, and width of your tires can change it. I don't really know though. I just wish the wheel flange to wheel flange spec was more commonly seen.

Actually, I ordered my (gray) caliper paint from Jegs, and I didn't even get a sticker! haha

I'm buying my axles from a guy who has them in an SN95 Mustang, so I think i'm good on the spline count. I BELIEVE the SVOs used the same brakes as the early Mark VIIs. So, the axles should be the same, in theory. I don't really know what application my housing was originally from. I bought it from a guy who had been using it in a Fox convertible. But if the housings were all the same, and I've heard from a few sources they are, it shouldn't matter. I will measure though.

I think the parking brake cables are pretty different. I know the SN95 style come way long and i'd have to shorten them though to use the pedal setup. Hmmm, maybe I CAN adapt the ones I have...

Nothing wrong with just enjoying your work. At least you can drive it. Once mine functions to my satisfaction, i'll probably leave well enough alone for a while.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:23 am

wanna hear something funny, some of the early SN95 v-6 models had drum brakes!!!
I hope that the lincoln diff housing is the same width as a fox, then you are gold...
it's difficult at best to get an accurate measurement as there is no clear shot to measure flange to flange because the diff cover sticks out too far.
My way of measuring the rear diff length was simple, in fact rather primitive; it involves using a magnet with a piece of cotton string. Tie the string to the magnet, stick it on the inside of the diff housing flange and draw it snug to the other side, and mark it with a sharpie. the good thing was they all pretty much had the same stamped diff cover, I was only interested in length of the string being the same, seems all the ones I “checked” were the same 7.5 or 8.8 until you get to the 99 & up. Cool! there will always be a little difference measuring it this way because of brake lines or something, but you’ll be looking for a massive difference which will be the indicator there is a difference.
Too right about the wheels, you can get all sorts of offsets,
If you are getting the axles from this guy, are you able to get all the brakes and hardware as well?
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:04 pm

I ended up picking up the axles yesterday. I also picked up rebuilt calipers from Napa. All 4 '95 GT style. I just wanted to go new/reman so it wouldn't be something I'd have to wonder about. I got the axle flange and anti-moan brackets from ebay.

I found out recently that SVO wheels are the same 45mm offset as S197 wheels. That was cool to learn.

Haha, that's weird. I never knew there were drum brake SN95s.

My tax refund has arrived, so it's parts orderin' time! I've already ordered the new carpet, wheel skin, and a few other things.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:33 pm

glad to hear you can get moving on the brakes. it's 85f under my back porch, been doing yard work and more parts sorting. still more parts....I need to do another car! I thought those cans had firewood in them.
what is a wheel skin???
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:22 pm

Sweet! See, the key in your case living in a warm climate is to do a car that can replace a daily driver. That's how you get it past "the committee". I really wanted to do that with a Pinto or LTD wagon, but I just wouldn't have felt right driving a classic in the snow. I'm just too accustomed to FWD in winter anyway.

A Wheelskin is pretty much an aftermarket leather wrap for almost any steering wheel. You stitch it on, just like factory. It's sweet, and it adds heft to your wheel rim! The fatter the better, I say.

To be continued in the 2016 thread....
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