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» Keep it or Scrap It ?
Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:07 pm by Fairmont_Jeff

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» 2015 Project Thread!
Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:22 pm by ZephyrEFI

» For Fairmont on the Road Course Videos...
Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:03 am by ZephyrEFI

» My Zeph 2015
Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:47 pm by ZephyrEFI

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Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:37 pm by ZephyrEFI

» '78 and '79 Fairmont and Zephyr ES
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 2015 Project Thread!

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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:12 pm

Yeah, B-O-P engines are slightly more interesting than Chevy engines, I guess, but they're still not Fords. I know a guy that told me he has some '40s Chevy truck with a Pontiac engine in it. I said "So what? GM is GM." I know it was probably an involved swap, but still not something I would drool over. GM was stupid to have so many different lines of engines for what was essentially the same applications. That doesn't make the non-Chevy ones somehow exotic, it makes them pointless.

And of course you know, I'm bitter about the fact that all those cars you listed off are not worth a bazillion dollars thanks to those jerks at Barrett-Jackson and Mecum. Regular Joes can't have them anymore, so they're just hands-off trophies now.

I don't know if I'd say wrong-brand engine swaps are the way things are going. I'd probably say if anything, things are slightly better now, with RIGHT brand engine swaps becoming a bit more common.

That's pretty good about telling the kit guys they didn't follow the directions. hahahahaha!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:42 pm

id love to have enough money to buy several cars, but your correctomundo, the average Joe thinks his rusted out shell is "going to bring the rain". when in fact its so far gone it would need far too much work to even drive it, they have no clue what it takes to restore a car, quite often the parts cost more than the car is worth, so why bother. I've done a couple of "big jobs" at work, and they only need a bit of TLC....well I did a ranger & a Mustang, both spent more than the cars were worth, but they had sentimental value, and there was no pressure in the beginning, until the engine runs, then they want it NOW!!! so I leave the engine till last, no run-no hurry. I hate those jobs as you never know if the customer will be happy or just amused or pissed. I used to do the starter & alternator mods, but they seemed to have dropped off, as it costs too much????? 3k on a stereo and a 65 amp alternator is a joke!!! oh well, I'd like to do a couple here at home, but cant really be reliable if the old girl gets ill.
I hope you keep a couple of copies of the mag for nostalgic purposes. seems I cant even get a ticket.....yeah, I'm also constantly reminded about that dammed Red supercharged corvette incident. I just look at them and question their motives. it was kinda funny afterwards, but this thing needs to go away, its getting old, besides I'm never going to compete in that guys class. I don't see anyone else hunting him out to have a go themselves.
still haven't found the mirror yet, only the chromo....the car still looks great on the inside from when ol' Skinny did the interior detail, (I'm using the plastic seat covers to keep the seat clean)so I went for a set of those new style fat OEM wiper blades from FORD, they cost a bit, but they seem to do a great job, might try a set for the other cars.
saw a really nice 50's ford truck this morning, had a burgundy paint job, it sure did look pretty in the morning sun.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:44 pm

I love my '92 and up starter. Seems like a silly thing to get excited about, but it made me pretty happy, haha. As for the 3G alternator swap, what all is involved in doing that? I really should do that one too. I did buy a "guaranteed for life" stock replacement alternator, but hopefully that just makes it easier to sell, haha. Anyway, i'm guessing the wiring for the newer style alternators is totally different. What all do you have to do? It's cool you used to do that as part of the deal.

Yeah, I'll definitely keep that mag and maybe get a spare.

That guy with the corvette keeps bugging you? Maybe you should run him off the road, haha.

Have you looked on ebay for that mirror? I'll bet it's there.

Remember the taillight conversation where I was looking at getting a different multifunction switch to get the taillights to work like they're supposed to? Well, there's a guy on the other forum who built a little module to do that! I asked for details, but haven't gotten any yet.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:05 am

i use the 3G alternators from a 96 mustang, they are the 7in case. you'll need to run a heavier battery to the alternator cable and a power wire with a 20 amp fuse. the reason for the larger battery cable is the alt will produce more amperage and your 65 amp cables aren't up to the load, also the connectors are different.
foe the most part, the alt is a direct bolt on, however you may find that you'll need to grind a bit off of the alternator mount for clearance issues. there are a few sites on the net that walk you thru it.
the best thing is no orange headlamps or dimming headlights with the other accessories like directional indicators operating while at an idle, the battery gets charged quicker.
no it's the guys in the workshop who find it funny about the vette.
I'm still looking in the auction line for the mirror. haven't tried e-bay.last time I looked they were a bit tasty.
I tried to come up with a reasonable mod for the brake turn issue, I couldn't find a real solution with out a load if excess wiring, so I changed the m/funct sw, did a bit of minor wiring and added a transistorized flasher unit. can't say for sure, but I think it all came from a 93 cougar, and it was functional with the intermittent wipers.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:24 pm

Yeah, my charging system not only has to deal with a sub-par alternator, I have the stupid under-drive pulleys spinning it slower than it's intended to. What a mess. Can't wait to straighten that out.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:54 am

you'll be a hell of a lot happier with the 3G alternator. I was pretty lucky because I make my own cables etc. you'll still use the same wire for the voltmeter wire. when your idling at night with the heater or A/C on, stereo on and headlights operating, your headlights will still be nice & bright while idling.
just for your info, once the alternator is mounted, make all the wires longer than you need, run the wiring from the alternator to the car, I will make a tidier job. battery cable eyelets that fit the terminal on the alternator can be purchase at most parts stores, be sure to solder each eyelet to the cable and insulate the joint with heatshrink tubing.
the first on I did measured the length of the cable with a piece of string, it actually came up short, so I figured that it would be better to start from the alternator and run it to the body and then cut to fit.

I tried use the m/function switch from the mustang, I even had the old boss over to help figure it out, we struck, he was the best "alternate wiring modifier" I knew, we used to bounce ideas off each other to check each others ingenuity. it would be a nightmare and a mess, so I used the cougar switch and rewired it to fit the Fairmont, I believe the connectors had to be repinned and replaced at the m/funct sw.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:30 pm

Yeah, I did a little research on the swap yesterday. I was surprised you only use 1 wire from the old harness. That just seems weird to me, haha.

Looks like my "current" alternator is an 80 amp Duralast Gold. That's better than 65, I guess, but no 130. If I do this swap, i'll probably have to try and do it on a budget. Like, try to find one at the junkyard and maybe rebuild it. I've heard there's a 95 amp 3G too though. How do you identify the 130 amp?

I know about repinning those multifunction switches. You might remember my adventure making an '87 column work with my '90 wire harness. How stupid. What's the point of Ford changing where the pins are?
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:05 am

you know that's a good question, I've never considered how to tell the difference, I can only say it may be the manual cars without a/c that have the lower amperage.
speaking from experience, the only thing I've ever replaced on any od those 3G were the brush packs.
when I did my first NEW 3g, I took an old duralast alternator back to autozone, swapped it in and paid the difference on the 3g. I used to do a lot of business at the Zone, they had no problem doing that. there is some kind of policy they had.
the reason I always solder the eyelets is that sometimes the hammer operated crimper does not crimp tight enough and the wire will wiggle loose. I use a butane or map gas torch ans sol. use a pair of vise grips to hold the eyelet, put the solder inside the eylet and heat it up.
the only wire you'll use is for the alternator light/voltmeter.
I used to like doing the mod on an older car that had a voltage regulator because not only does it throw out a boatload of amperage, it also tidies up the engine bay.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:49 pm

Yeah, I've got no problem with soldering eyelets. I think I used my vice to crimp the big eyelets I did recently. Soldering them just seems like cheap insurance.

That's really cool Auto Zone let you swap like that. I don't know if they would be happy if I brought my alternator that's in perfect working order back to them and tried that though, haha. I suppose maybe they could treat it like a return? Maybe? haha

I've noticed on a few of the conversion posts I've seen, they re-use the original dual black w/orange power wires, and put them on the charging post for the 3G. And then they put the additional 4-gauge power wire on there also. Why wouldn't you want to just eliminate the old dual power wires? They're probably brittle, corroded, and just no good by this point. I would think using them with that additional current would be just asking for an underhood fire!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:04 am

get rid of the original wires, they serve no purpose, therefore they are excess. I refrain from criticizing other people when they try to assist, but in the info is corrupt or dangerous or just doesn't work, you have to step in. they will usually be happier if they can get things right. I make mistakes, but usually can correct them on the diagrams before installation, but I don't want to burn my car down, or worse-someone else's car.
this mod has been out for years, there are always good sites to visit, the more sites you visit, the clearer the whole concept becomes.
some people refuse to use fusible links or fuses for the alternator main battery wire, I say a fuse or fusible links are cheap protection.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:46 am

Yeah. I've noticed that the kits that come with that 4 gauge power wire include the noise reduction thingy. That and a fuse. They're probably worth it for that reason alone. And any time I can eliminate one of the ring terminals on the solenoid, I like to do that if I can.

I'm having trouble finding exactly which applications have an alternator that will fit. I notice the 4.6 ones mount very differently, and ditto the truck and Explorer applications. The ones I've found that will work are SN95 5.0 and 3.8 Mustangs (although Napa has a different part for the V6 ones) as well as 3.8 Tauri and T-bird/Cougars. There has to be more than that, I'm sure though. You know how it is, if you can avoid looking for something that explicitly for a Mustang application, you'll save money every time.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:34 am

beware of Taurus, windstar alternators, they are usually 8 inch cases, ok for some Lincolns, you'll need the 7 inch case for your car.

make sure you kit has provision for a fuse or fusible link.

you're gonna like this mod
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:54 pm

hmm, interesting, I didn't know that. You'd probably never know to look at it too. I can't seem to find a decent site that tells me what other cars used the same part. Rock Auto will tell you the model line, but not the engine. Napa will tell you both, but their data is really inconsistent. Even the Ford Parts site is useless. It will find the part if you search for the number, but when you put the number in the crossover search field, it can't find it!

Yeah, I'd definitely use a fuse. Double the amps + 25 year old wiring is a bit scary, haha.

One other thing that has me scratching my head is Motorcraft vs. Ford alternators. I notice Rock Auto has separate rebuild kits for them, Ford vs. Motorcraft. What's the difference? I remember from when I was wrenching, with brake pads, Ford OEM pads were a step up from Motorcraft ones. But recently when I was looking for an OEM Ford heater core, everywhere I went that said they have OEM Ford ones, actually turned out to be Motorcraft. Are they different? Who knows! I notice too, the alternators available from Ford parts are all Motorcraft too. So, maybe Ford ones are just no longer available for these, OR there's really no difference. I hate not knowing stuff like that.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:15 pm

motorcrap is the regular stuff you get when you order alternators, water pumps, switches, starters, window regs, it's good stuff.
the alternator you want is from a 97 mustang v-6. I don't know If it came on anything else, probably. I don't rebuild alternaotrs anymore, generally just the brush packs go wrong when the brushed wear out. it's a very reliable alternator, the basic alternator is used on a load of vehicles, just different mountings.
I have a 3G on the 4.6, but it's a different mount than the v-6
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:46 pm

I went to change my oil yesterday. I thought i'd warm up the engine a bit so the oil flows more nicely. Buuuut, my stupid Duralast battery was dead. Yes, AGAIN. I may be crazy, but I think sitting in 30 degree weather for a month or so should not kill a battery. I suppose it COULD be that when driving the car, the low amp alternator just can't keep up with the needs of the electric fan. I haven't been using the stereo, so it would just be the fan that would be the problem.

Of course, I could have an amp draw when the car is off too that's causing this to happen. We'll just forget about that possibility for now though, haha.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:20 am

a battery will discharge quicker when sitting in the cold. I would suggest using a battery tender.
the bad part is once a battery goes flatline, it never comes back as strong as before.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:03 pm

What I usually do is put it inside. I charged it up, used it to run the car for a short time after adding the StaBil to the gas, charged it up again (since I didn't run the car long enough to recharge it), and brought it inside. The battery wasn't as dead as I thought though, there was something odd going on with the connections. I'm going to blame it on cold weather because none of the pertinent connections were actually loose or corroded at all. If I find that that battery is dead again in the spring or unreliable in any way in the spring, it's outta here. I'm tired of going back and going back and going back to Auto Zone with it.

When I was running the car, I noticed that my taillights glow a little bit when they're off and the engine is running. Any ideas on that one? Do I need more grounds or something?

I got a clue about how to identify what steering rack I have. it's SPR-DB. I've heard a lot about how you can identify them by that code, but no specifics. Also, it has an '87 date code and (apparently) is a 15:1 rack. It's probably exactly the same rack I pulled out, which was from my '90 LX 5.0L parts car. On a side note, the rack I have in there now is leaking in the same spot that caused me to replace the last one.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:59 am

i have heard of this happening when using LED, in fact I put a set into a dodge truck for the dome lights and found that the dome lights stayed on at a very dim/faint glow. I checked with various other people to find that this is not abnormal due to back feeding. each person had found that when the OEM bulbs were installed, the issue went away. as you are aware there are multiple circuits that can back feed, this may be the cause as the led use far less amperage to operate than incandescent bulbs. I shouldn't worry at this time, however you could always perform an amperage draw test by using a digital multimeter.
ensure the battery is fully charged.
ensure all accessories are switched off
ensure all devices are unplugged
disconnect the neg batt term
set the dmm to the 10 amp scale
using a battery isolator, put the neg term of the dmm on the batt tem side
put the pos side of the dmm to the neg batt cable
allow the modules to go to sleep up to 2hrs
open the battery isolator to view the amperage draw, this should be below 0.050 amps
if an excessive amp draw is suspected, start pulling fuses to locate the draw.
just be aware that cold weather can discharge a battery quicker that normal weather and can take longer to charge up also.
stop talking about leaks, I think I have a rack leak or oil filter leak, I saw a drop on the floor yesterday, I didn't investigate because I had another migraine and did not want to bend down or I probably would have just stayed there.....
i'm used a motor crap tested tough battery, cost the same as most decent batteries, 3 yr free replacement, 6 or 7 year pro-rated.
some people swear dura last are good, some swear it's the dura last battery they will ever own, some go to Walmart, some to scrappa, some to Costco, some people just don't care. it a preference thing, however I preferred motor crap batteries, they seemed to bee the best for me, however; I did have a Walmart battery that lasted for years.
just be made aware: once a battery goes dead, chances are it will never be the same again. always charge a battery at the lowest amp scale that you can to fully charge it.
rule of thumb: charge a battery for 15 mins at 15 amps, if the batt voltage rises to 15 volts, it's a loser.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:54 am

Yeah, I'd certainly feel better with a Motorcraft battery in there. I can definitely say I won't buy a Duralast battery again. I guess in fairness though, I HAVE been pretty hard on the batteries in the Zeph though, as I work the kinks out of my electrical system.

Yeah, I have to diagnose my leak to be sure. I notice the wire looms above the rack have some wetness and crud build-up too. I know I got coolant all over the place when I was doing the head job this summer, haha. One of the reasons I'm really looking forward to the engine rebuild is getting my engine block and front cover cleaned up nice for a change. They have a nasty coating of crud on them. I need to put some blue threadlock on my valve cover bolts. I'm constantly battling leaks there.

I like that rule of "15s"! Makes it easy to remember! I really have no doubt in my mind this battery will be dead in the spring and get dumped in favor of a better one. I need to do that amp draw test too. Seems this might be a warmer winter, so maybe it won't be so bad to spend some time in the garage this year. Last year was NASTY cold. But now, we still don't even have a snowpack yet.

As long as those taillights aren't still glowing when the car is off, yeah, I won't worry about it.

I was talking on the other forum about getting the brake and turn lights to work like they did originally. I had one guy tell me I should get a harness from an LTD and use that instead. Sure! I'll just rewire my whole car, why not, haha. How about NO.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:55 am

You have no reason to use another loom to re-wire you brake/taillights, how much wire do you want to ADD to the car.
Let’s make it easy, there are 2 basic types if multi-function switches that will fit your steering column, maybe even more, two types that I am aware of are those with a separate hazard flasher switch (like yours-located on the cluster trim panel) and those with an integrated hazard switch like the 93 cougar and 97 mustang just for examples.
Let’s dig a little deeper, there are two types of flasher units, the old flasher pot style,( and your car has 2 flasher pots, one for turn signals and one for hazards) and the transistorized unit like on the 93 cougar & 97 mustangs.
I’ve spent too much time looking for my diagrams that I did on my turn sig mod, so basically we’ll have to start over…….buggar……..i probably used the usb drive for music or lost it, I have checked my RED usb’s, no wiring for this car.
I gave the original hand altered wiring diagrams to FOX 81, who is no longer on the site……..I hope he got his 5.0 install done. He had a pretty sweet little box top, with a really cool console and some other bits & pieces. Loads of good ideas, but was going to college & working.
This is where you have to have to come to a decision making point, do you want to use the later integrated m/funct style switch (with the hazard flasher switch on top of the m/funct sw) that can be installed in your car, or the OEM mustang m/funct that will not operate your turn/ brake light correctly for the Fairmont style of tailights.
Ok if you use the later style you will either have to drill a hole in the upper column trim to use the hazards or not drill a hole for visual purposes and not use the hazards. I chose to drill a hole.
I’m not interested in getting involved in any debates of what you can or can not do, or any “modules” as it’s time consuming, and I do what I need to do for my pleasure, that’s why I don’t publish anything, somebody always moans. If someone were to come up with a module that works to correct this problem, they should manufacture it, as I would be a great time saver for a lot of people, I certainly would have considered it.
To do the mod; You will need to re-pin a new style hardshell connector in.You’ll need a m/funct sw; pig tail hardshell , the t/sig can will need to be removed and shorted, the hazard flasher can will have to be removed and shorted for power source. The hazard flasher sw will have to be disconnected and I believe a wire or 2 has to be shorted. The cluster wiring has to be altered for the flasher indicator, the whole job is fairly easy, just time consuming and well worth the results.
I will continue to look for the usb and hope I had scanned copied the hand-altered copy of the m/funct sw. it would save a lot of time.
I will work with you if you want to do it, but I will need copies of both the new and old wiring diagrams, what year is your car’s wiring?

In the mean-time, find the correct wiring diagram for your cars current wiring. Scan it, copy it and put it on a USB. You’ll need it for drawings. Then find which switch you’ll want to install in your car, compare the differences.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:03 pm

My wire harness is from a 1990 car. I do like the way the taillights operate on the 1992-95 Taurus. All 4 bulbs come on for the brake lights, but only the outer two flash for the turn signals. Pretty trick. I was trying to remember why I initially ruled it out when we were talking about this earlier this year, and I think it was because of the integrated hazard switch. I'm not against a challenge though.

Really, I was just thinking about this again because that other guy said he got it to work on his. He has yet to reveal how he did it though. I'm sure your way is much easier.

So, one possibility for my problems with my steering is air in the system. I never did do the whole deal where you attach a vacuum pump to the top of the reservoir and suck it out. Mostly because I don't have a vacuum pump, and things seemed to be working fine. I plan to acquire a Mityvac one of these days though and give that a try. It would be nice if I didn't have to buy any different steering components. I've got enough things I need to buy, and at least now I know my existing rack, from an '87 LX 5.0 is about as good as I'm going to get for a Fox rack. It's not a sloppy stock Zephyr rack or anything like that.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:48 am

If your power steering is not growling while idling or turning, or if it’s not thumping when turning at idle don’t worry about air in the system. Air in the system will usually dissipate after the oil is warmed and the system is used a few times. as you know, FOrd pumps are notorious for noise.
I actually used a mityvac fluid transfer pump more than the mytivac hand vac, hers why. The hand pump has to have a canister attached inline between the pwr strg pump & the hand pump to contain any oil drawn from the pwr strg pump to prevent it from entering the mytivac.. all that pump makes my hand hurt.
So what I do is get a rubber sink plug from ace hardware, drill a hole in it, insert a 3/16 brake line tube into the rubber plug, take a piece if soft vinyl hose and add it to the smallest transfer pump hose, start the engine and pump away. You can draw one hell of a vacuum with no worry. I leave the engine running while pulling the vacuum, the pump will growl like hell ehile turning the strg whl left to right, but it get’s all the air out.
I have the mytivac hand pump with gauge, the fluid evacuator, and the fluid evacuator & transfer pump, I use them all for different reasons, transmission oil, power steering oil, brake flush, brake bleeding etc. I also have a John-built electric vacuum pump with a gauge for various testing purposes like A/C and 4x4 vacuum circuits.
Now onto the flasher unit/brake concern, I will be building another transistorized system soon for another veh using LED, but this one is going to be a different veh, and will be a plug and play once I find out which steering column and switch they will be using. I love it! You can bench test and demonstrate it prior to installation. After doing that nasty 4x4 system, the turn signals are just extra tasty gravy!
Now that I know for sure which system you have I need to know if you have a tilt wheel, if you don’t we are gold and ready to start this project when time permits. Your gonna love this mod.
This may be diificult to explain on the net, so I will copy a diagram and make all the mods visible with a red pen or sharpie so it shows up better, just make sure you keep the diagram, I isually scan andcopy everything, but his one I didn’t, why…..I don’t know.
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ZephyrEFI

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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:59 am

You know, that was my thought about it the last time I opened the system, that any air in the system would just take care of itself over time. The fact that the pump wasn't louder than it should be told me everything was okay.

I'll look into those other pumps.

Yep, I have a 1990 wire harness, 1990 multifunction switch, and an '87-89 non-airbag column. But yes, it is a tilt column. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:51 pm

ok the tilt column may present an issue, if you have a small strg whl with no offset as it may present issues using the high or beams ( I cant remember). we can overcome that issue.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Project Thread!   Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:32 pm

Here's my wheel. It's flat, like you say. No offset.



Why does that affect things? The angle of the stalk? The stalks aren't removable are they? Within reason, I mean? haha. It would be cool to be able to retain the correct Mustang stalk. I was thinking I didn't want to have the hazard switch on the column, but I guess if I did, then I could use the original hazard switch for turning on the dome light, since my LMR replacement dimmer switch can't do that for some reason.
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