351W vs. 351C

Okay guys and gals...I know nothing about the Cleveland motor beyond legend.

What are the pros/cons of the 351W vs. the 351C? There's a nice 351C for sale locally and I'm wondering if it would be a good choice for my coupe.

Thanks,
Don

Hey Don, I used to run a 351 cleveland years ago and probably would run another one if I felt the need to run another small block. The 351 has a few drawbacks over the windsor, so I'll list the bad first.
-They have a weak oiling system...the cure is to run an external oil line from a pressure port to a main galley feed. The way it was designed the mains starve for oil at high rpms, but this cures the problem.
-parts availability-In the past there were no aftermarket heads and very few intakes availiable...that's changed now. There are companies now offering aftermarket heads and intakes. The big thing now are the Aussie heads, but they can get expensive.
-Blocks...IMO blocks shouldn't be bored over .030 unless they've been sleeved.
Was only in production from 1970-1974...finding a good used block is difficult, but there are availiable aftermarket blocks.
The good
Once the oiling system is fixed...they are virtually bullet proof.
Stock rods ( with arp fasteners )and cranks are good for around 7500-8000 rpm
-heads....stock cleveland heads are better than any stock windsor head ( even some aftermarket ) hands down.
The windsor
Open up a catalog and you opportunities are endless!
Personally I like things that are " different " and would run a cleveland, but that's me...I don't think I'll ever do what the vast majority does, although economically the windsor makes sense.
Bryan

Hmmmm...Windsor vs. Cleveland...

Bell housing pattern: same.
Head bolt pattern: same.

Heads: Cleveland has a "canted valve" design, which offers a "pent roof" combustion chamber. Two barrel Clevelands have smaller intake and exhaust ports and valves, yielding better torque. Four barrel Clevelands have huge-ass ports, because four barrel Clevelands are supposed to be race engines. They make more top-end horsepower, and are soft on the bottom. There are no aftermarket sources for Cleveland heads as far as I know. It used to be that the way to make a fast oval-track engine was to put four barrel (Australian) Cleveland heads on a Windsor block, yielding a "Clevor", but then NASCAR allowed actual aftermarket heads, and Windsor head technology took off. Now, aftermarket Windsor heads are actually better than any Cleveland head.

Oiling: Clevelands are notorious for having problems oiling. Anyone who wants to run a Cleveland hard and have it live puts some sort of restriction somewhere in the cam oiling system to solve the problem. I don't know where, but I know that they do it.

Weight: I think that a Cleveland is heavier than a Windsor.

Long story short, I think I'd rather build a Windsor than have a Cleveland. Sure, a Cleveland is less common, so you'd get style points for having one, but it'd probably be easier to find a well built Windsor for less money than you'd get a Cleveland for, or you'd put less money into building a Windsor than a Cleveland. And, if something happened that you damaged a head or something, Windsor stuff is more likely to be cheaper, and way easier to find.

Hope this helps.

Later,
Mike.

why not build a hyrbid of the too, i know a couple guys that did it and had great sucess but they spend some money






imho cleavlands people in big cars and if you are trying to do it on a budget they are a waste of a motor in a fox.

Well, what made the Cleveland kind of cool is it is an original 351CJ with all numbers matching parts so I thought it might be cool and I love being unique but after looking around a bit I think it would get expensive building what I want in the end so I'll pass on it and go with the Windsor.

Thanks for the input!!

Don

If it was me....If I was going to go with a big block...go big like a 460....make it worth while to do all the work to fit. 351w, still has its issues, but still a lot easier then a big block.

Stymees'mont wrote:

If it was me....If I was going to go with a big block...go big like a 460....make it worth while to do all the work to fit. 351w, still has its issues, but still a lot easier then a big block.

The 460's fit isn't a problem.... There's plenty of room for a decent size header. My build and photobucket link is in the photos section if anyone is interested. The combo consists of a mild 460 and a well built c-4.