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 Update on this year's projects!

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fangar150-ex



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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:07 am

Yeah when I changed mine over to the later frt suspension, and put the 16 in wheels on, people thought I lowered it, but I hadn’t. the bigger wheels just made it look that way. Here is some frt anti roll bar info, it looks like you are running a 33mm frt anti roll bar, you may try one out of a 84-86, which is the same as a cobra! That should loosen up the frt end a bit.

84-86 Mustang 5.0
28.5mm front
20mm rear

87-93 Mustang 5.0 (xcpt Cobra)
33mm front
19 or 21mm rear

1993 Mustang Cobra
28.5mm front
31mm rear
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:32 pm

interesting stuff. I'll bet there is one at the all-Ford yard by me. Too bad all those cars are sitting on the ground with no wheels though. Makes it hard to get at that stuff.

Does the Cobra have its own specific shock/struts?
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:22 pm

I'm starting to look at suspension packs that include springs, dampeners, and sway bars. They are almost as expensive as the coilover kit, but more comprehensive. Eibach and Steeda both claim to IMPROVE the ride. The dampeners that come with the Steeda kit are even adjustable. I'm starting to think this may be the way to go. At least this way, I wouldn't have to worry about the suspension ever again. Many of the kits though come with stuff I don't need like subframe connectors, strut tower braces, and c/c plates, all of which I already have. So that was annoying.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:39 am

you still need data, and be able to under stand it.

when you look t the marketing term "improves the ride" so does airing up the tires when the are low.

shock technology has evolved a lot, Gabriel, Monroe  & Tenneco have to continually update their products, I went to a shock class recently, and I found it interesting. However it may be boring to the next guy!
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:20 am

Sounds interesting to me. But all I know is, I bought some cheap struts (I think they were KYB) for the rear on my '93 Escort GT in about 2004 or so. When I was done, the ride was even bouncier than before with the super-worn out, rusty, leaking old one and a broken spring! That job was a b*tch to do, so I just left it, but it p*ssed me off every single time I drove the thing after that. It's like the struts weren't dampening at all. The change of season up here makes for some pretty bouncy highways in some spots. One time I was driving down one particularly bouncy one and this kid riding next to me thought it was hilarious how much I was bouncing around. I did not find it the least bit funny.

And "improves the ride" has to mean it's decent riding compared to some lowering springs that are just all about handling at all costs. Almost anything would be an improvement at this point though. I think you'd be surprised how badly my car rides right now. Every bump sends shudders through the whole chassis.

We'll see how much money we get at tax time. That will dictate what I do, but I think I'd prefer a complete handling package. I want to KNOW it's going to work, and not have to tinker with those god-forsaken front springs EVER AGAIN. One of the Eibach kits doesn't even claim to lower the car! haha. I'd call the company first though and see what they have to say about it, whether they think it would be okay in a Zeph, rather than a Mustang.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:38 pm

KYB is usually good stuff. personally the way I do my research is to look up the specs online, gas shocks or not, write a letter to the company on their "contact us" and go from there. rear shocks usually dampen on the up stroke, this stops the car even and level, and cuts down on frt pad wear. frt shocks dampen on the down stroke, however frt and rear shocks can have a variable orifice. don't go tooo technical, find out what you need to know, because when you tell the company what you will be using them on, that will be their get-out clause. just learn what you need and write a letter. they will be able to guide you. the good part of research is that sometimes you can find the same dampening spec with a longer or shorter piston/rod length.
remember improve the ride is a marketing term for replacing an old shock with a new one, what improve the ride means to you or me may be different to the next guy, if you know what i mean...unless you want to go TOKIKO D spec, I had a used pair for a while, they were ok, but they started to leak after a short while, used is used.
I know it sounds crazy, but there is some good reading about shocks, technology has changed a lot. of course, everybody's shock is better that the competition, so its a crap-shoot.
too much knowledge causes a lack of progress!
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:11 pm

I think I see what you're getting at. Maybe I could find a not-so-expensive option other than the big money brands that may effectively do the same thing. I don't know. Since I'm a novice at that sort of thing, I don't want to take a bunch of specs and assume it means such and such on the seat-of-the-pants-o-meter. Like say a Monroe strut has a certain set of specs, vs an Eibach strut has a certain set, so that means the Monroe should ride softer. That sounds WAY more technical than I want to get, haha. I can't be sure of that kind of thing, and tend to be hard on myself when I get something like that wrong. Especially if it's an expensive mistake. For starters, I have no clue what makes a quality strut a quality strut. I just know those struts I put on my Escort didn't have it!
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:50 am

A quality strut or shock generally has a good warranty. (Autozone, oriely's and scrappa offer lifetime on some of their shocks) Monroe and Gabriel struts are one my cars. So far no issues. Some other brand shocks are also made by these companies.
Each shock manufacturer has a set of specs for a certain car based on factory specs, the aftermarket shock has to be as good as OEM, however there is a possibility there could be a slight improvement in some area. The manufacturer has to keep pretty close to spec so they don't screw-up the ride, not everyone wants a mushy ride or harsh ride, and most people want the OEM ride.
hot-rodders, drifters, lowered cars have special shocks, but they also have specialized suspension components like altered, lowered, or raised spindles, adjustable control arms poly bushings etc these are not good for me . I would probably wear it out adjusting it to find perfection today, and then find that I’m not happy with it tomorrow and start chasing the wind.
There are no specs to go with for these modified Fairmont’s, so we are at the mercy of our calculations and imagination.
Find what you think you are looking for and go for it, if it’s not right, send it back. Keep good records by using E-mails.
I’m using stock mustang spindles, frt and rear springs, struts and shocks and L/C/A bushings, Frt and rear tires all the same size. however i have had different anti roll bars on the frt & rear, so far no I’ve had no problems with height issues, my main issue in the past was control/stiffness for handling, different camber settings, SVO steering rack, different tire sizes, wow what a difference between the 65 series and 50 series tires in handling, however the ride was harsher, good stuff. In the end i had the camber set to zero with a slight positive toe and left it alone.
Why yours sits high is a mystery, measure your height at the tops of the wheel arches and i will measure Paula’s Fairmont and we’ll see if there is a difference. She has my old Fairmont. All new shocks, stock 14 inch wheels & tires.
will it ever be RIGHT? what is RIGHT? happiness is only in your mind, it only last until the next thought comes to mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:55 am

Haha, seems like you're a lot more optimistic about this than I am. Over the years, I've become more cynical about store brand or inexpensive stuff. I'm a big believer in "you get what you pay for". If it's cheap, it's probably crappy. I've been burned too many times trying to save a buck. Although, I don't doubt that if you study them, as you have, you can make a good informed decision.

I have to believe part of the reason my ride is so bad is the mismatched components. Stymee is of the opinion that my car sits so high because the springs are so tall. They ARE really tall. I'll take a pic when i swap them. I don't know why or what the manufacturer was thinking making them like that, but I hate them. haha. Although, at the time, that's precisely what I was after. I wanted the suspension to either be high or stiff enough that I could use those wheels without rubbing issues. And then, I lived to regret that, haha.

I looked on Maximum Motorsports' site and only found kits that come with a bunch of chassis stiffening stuff, which obviously I don't need, but had a guy just tell me they will put together any kit you want. I didn't know that. I'll give one of their pros a call. I'd be happy to give them my buck because they provide a really valuable service offering all that tech for free on their site like they do. I've referenced it MANY times.

Oops, I can't get that measurement for you, as I don't have tires at the moment. I AM curious to measure my sway bars though, so I at least want to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:45 pm

As you know, I’m using the AJE cross member, i had to cut about 3 to 3 ½ inches from the bottom of the coil off to get the springs to go in. i should imagine your Maximum Motorsports k member would be the same. Which springs do you have on your car, year, make & model.
I was shocked to find the SN95 springs are weaker than the FOX !!!! i thought at first they would be stiffer, but research proved me wrong, and softened the suspension up.
There are coil spring installation tools out there. I’ve never used one because I believe in brute force and ignorance, so far i aint got no brane damij, or et leeste i don’t think so, just got this ringin en mah eerz. Maybe i should think about buying some things, eventually, something is gonna happen….
I know guys who use them and said they were a good investment, maybe so, I’ve never seen a spring compressor for Fords. Sounds like a lot of screwing around. However maximum motorsports sells a tool for installing lowering springs on fords. .
If the car was 100% stock, the computations and repair actions would be straight forward, but that would be too easy. I suppose you just have to be persistent.
When you contact maximum motorsports hopefully you will contact a good experienced Ford associate, no some Chevy freak. They have a lot to risk when they give spotty information, so i would assume they will be happy to work with you.
When you are done with this issue, you’ll be laughing…….
Bring your car down for a couple of days when it warms up, i work with literally the best suspension guru in the southwest, dude is awesome, he’s like a Pyrenean mountain dog chewing on a horse leg . Then when the task has been executed we can blast over to Tombstone and back, one road is high speed and the other road back is a slalom trip. You’ll know its right when you get back. Or you can go to Bisbee thru mule mountain tunnel, the trip to Bisbee is a blast, but you have to watch your speed in Bisbee, lots of old hippies and the sorts.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:26 am

forgot to tell you, the frt shocks are all the same for 94-04, so looks to me that covers 5.0, 4.6 & cobra, howver before I carve that out in stone.......
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:32 am

Tokiko's a good brand, anyway. Should be interesting to see what they recommend at MM. I'm going to talk to a guy who posts on FEP, so he should be a Ford guy.

My springs are stock replacement '87-93 GT in front and '79 Zephyr Wagon in the rear.

It does make sense to me they were able to soften up the ride on the SN95, because I'm sure the chassis was stiffer. I guess you can get good handling with a softer ride if the chassis is stiffer. That's another reason I don't want to go with an OEM suspension setup because my chassis is no doubt even stiffer than that with the subframe connectors and such. Why have a punishing ride if I don't need to, ya know?

You don't use a spring compressor?! crazy. Pretty cool you're able to get away with it. Using one is quite an experience anyway. Especially with the springs I have now. You never know if the thing is going to let go and KILL YOU. I remember putting lowering springs on my brother's '01 Cobra. They definitely go in WAY easier. Another reason to go with them.

I'd love to come down, but I don't see it happening, haha. Wife's gotta work, and the massive baby seats don't fit in the Zeph. Maybe get that ringing looked at, haha.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:17 am

Well i have been doing some research on the cobra vs GT shocks, the Ford parts manager says the difference is about $6.00! However there is no descriptive literature as to what the difference is, valving/length etc from Ford.
The only difference i can find from other brands is the compressed and extended length, this could create issues as the normal/average extended length is about 18.5 inches extended and 12.5 compressed and some manufacturers offer 20.83 extended length and 14 9/16 compressed length. I believe i have the normal cheap assed 18.5 length bit i haven’t measured them, it seems the high dollar shocks have the longer extended length.
As you know the 3.8, 4.6 & cobra used different sized wheels and tires, different anti roll bars, see what Maximum Motorsports has to say and go from there.
As for me I’m getting used to my set-up and am sticking with it for now, i got what i asked for, a smoother ride, it’s hard to do so many mods at once and get back into the car and make proper evaluations, dash, engine note, drivetrain, suspension, and they all need to be evaluated individually. At first i wasn’t all that satisfied because there was too much to take in; even the position of the steering wheel is slightly different. Basically it’s a different car.
How are you coming along with your engine planning, hope all is well.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:29 pm

Man, I'd really love to see pics of your car. Especially that dash. I know what you mean about making a lot of changes at once. People ask me how one setup compares to another, and I've usually really got no answer, haha.

That's interesting that more expensive struts have a longer compressed length. You'd think that wouldn't be good for lowered cars, which a LOT of guys do! It seems like if a guy is going to modify his Mustang AT ALL the first 2 things he does is exhaust and lowering springs.

Engine plans are on hold. I think I've gathered all the info I need for now. I may end up putting a 331 kit on my 302, who knows. I still really like the idea of going to a 351 though. All I know is, I want a piece of that nice cheap Explorer intake action! Gonna start trolling the boneyards for one as soon as I get the chance (and the weather warms up)!
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:33 pm

Just finally measured my sway bars. They are 33 mm front and 21 rear, so standard '87-93 fare...
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:42 am

I have no idea why the shocks would be longer, kyb, bilstien are longer, there has got to be a reason, i’m just not seeing it..

Here’s some interesting info on the 97 year SN95 mustang tire/wheel sizes:

3.8 whl size 15x7 w/24mm offset P205/65/15 tires w/tire height 26.49 in

4.6GT whl size 16x7.5 w/30mm offset p225/55/16 tires w/tire height 25.74 in

GT 17x8 optional wheel size w/30mm offset p245/45/17 w/tire height 25.68 in

4.6 Cobra17x8 w/30mmoffset p245/45/17 w/tire height 25.68 in

Interestingly enough, these tire/wheel specs remain consistent up to 2002, no info was given for 03 or 04, however the PBR twin piston caliper was introduced in 99, which makes me wonder if the 15in wheel will fit the fox4 (99-04) which has the PBR calipers. Interesting….

I hear that the 331 is more reliable than the 347, so far as “BANG” goes, however i do tend to agree with you on your 5.8 litre intentions, why follow a crowd, when you can beat your own path…..
i generally stick to stock engines, cheaper, better reliability etc. I hear that the 347 can crack the block between the lifter gallies if they are stressed too far. There are some pretty beastie 302’s around, but you really have to push the boat out to keep up with the 350’s, and once the 5.8 is built, you can always make further mods up if you wish.
I think I'd dump the 33mm frt anti-roll bar first and see what happens after you have wheels on it, kinda drive it around then doo an immediate swap to verify the feel.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:19 pm

Not a bad idea. There should be some base Mustangs I should be able to find at the boneyard. I could try and swap in a smaller front sway bar and see how it goes.

I have my message in to the guy from Maximum Motorsports. Should be interesting to see what he says. As I was composing I noted how funny it is I have so many different brands of components. Steeda, BBK, QA1, etc etc. Pretty much everything BUT Maximum Motorsports, haha.

I'm starting to feel more and more every day that I'm cracking the code on having a good suspension and don't necessarily feel tied down only to kits. All I can say is, it's going to be a fun summer. FINALLY. God knows I've earned it.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:14 pm

84-86 Mustang 5.0
28.5mm front
20mm rear

1993 Mustang Cobra
28.5mm front
31mm rear

Take a micrometer with you, you’ll be set.
I can’t see buying name brand parts for a lot of reasons, cash mainly, and secondly, the way I am, would it be what I’m looking for from minute to minute?? A lot of money goes to the magazines ETC for advertizing.
I do use JEGS for personal reasons, but only if the deal is right.
I had to go with the AJE to accomplish what I wanted, 4.6 for now, 350 later maybe another 302? I would have just cut the original k-member if it hadn’t been damaged-oh well, its easy to do a starter or 02 sensor now! No way is the AJE nearly as strong as stock, because it is a known fact that the k-member is part of the crash system, that’s why its heavier!!! You sure as hell can’t jack the car up in the center like I did before.
I’m hoping you get this baby percolating like you want it and start enjoying it. Listen to the devil en jest do-it!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:36 pm

See, me, I'll spend the money all day long if it means I don't have to think about it anymore. Once I install this new suspension I'm going to buy, I don't want to ever have to mess with it again. Especially those #$%^&* front springs!

Does that mean the car is done? No, of course not, haha. And I know if I go 5.8, I might have to swap front springs, but that's definitely a demotivating factor for doing that. I just know I've spent enough time messing with the suspension. I don't want to have to anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:10 pm

so long as the engine is in the car, the springs should be easy, or else I'm just lucky. you know they say it's better to be lucky than good. I'm glad you are figuring it out, I always thought too deep, and was never happy, the stuff in the box always required additional parts etc. then I just said screw it, and lets see what happens, 95% of the time it's good.
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:39 pm

Haha, yeah, I think you ARE just lucky! Every time I've done it, it's been moving heaven and earth. And I've done it a LOT of times.

I was reading some on Maximum Motorsports' website, and they say that the Bilstein HD struts that they carry will fit on all Mustangs '79-04. All I can figure is that means they come with the spacers to fit on an SN95 spindle! There's really no other possibility!

It might be a bit before I post your pics. I need to find a new image hosting site. The one I was using went away, and the other one shrunk, so I can't have many pics on that one. Car looks kick-ass though!
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:50 am

no worry on the pix, they don't mean a lot to me, other than proving I need a paint job.
I think the stance of the car is ok, however the camber was reset back to zero.
Wow; that’s a good one, going back from when i did the frt end the first time, if memory serves me correctly, the fox shocks i had would not fit the SN95 spindles, i think the fox strut lower holes were too close together, i remember i was pissed because my fox shocks were in great shape. I was thinking of whether to grind out the holes or get new SN95 struts.
I suppose you’ll have to make more decisions. I just can’t figure why a company with a good name would do a fitzall. Seems that’s a lot of specs to cover to include extended and compressed lengths. Maybe they are using an extended SN95 hole spacing with a fox spindle width and a shim??? Kinda makes sense, You’ll find out when you open the box.
Shocks should be a breeze to change, but i wouldn’t do it until it has wheels and tires ready for a road test, so if a problem develops, you can get tech assistance or a refund.

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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:54 am

Yeah, my plan is to buy tires first, for sure. I think I've settled on BF Goodrich "High Performance All-Seasons". I really don't want all-seasons, but summer touring tires cost twice as much! I'll probably buy tires as soon as we get our tax refund. How much is left over after we pay some bills will dictate what I do for suspension. I have a feeling the Maximum Motorsports recommended setup will come in well over $1000. If we don't have much to spend (which is pretty likely), I'll just grab a smaller front sway bar, get some Monroe dampeners and either Ford Racing or H&R springs. I should be able to get that done for closer to $500.

What was the deal with the Fairmont/Zephyr front sway bar mounts? They need to be strengthened or something if you want to put a bigger sway bar on? All I remember is, it was more trouble than I wanted to do at the time, or it involved welding (which I can't do).
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:32 am

well AUG said it wasn't a good idea to go over-size with the 33mm bar, he said you could rip the mounts out of the sub frame. I never got around to welding in any support bracing, but I continued to drive the car aggressively around corners, probably wouldn't hurt to have it strengthened.
I was looking at the "grip in a box" kit, funny I didn't see any shocks in the kit, perhaps I overlooked them.
I was considering putting the frt anti roll bar from the 97 onto my car, however it is quite some wider at the mounting points, and it looked like it may wander around in the mounting bushings and also rub on the tires when turning. I actually put the original fox bar back on, and used the mounting links/bolts on the L/C/A from the SN95 as they are shorter.
if you go to onlinetires.com you can find all sorts of tires, wet weather, directional, asymmetrical, etc, they blow the prices away compared to tire rack, they will deliver the tires to your doorstep, and shipping is cheap. name brand-new brands, all sorts.
some of the cheaper tires have great grip, traction A temp A etc, I put a set of Achilles tires on the wifes car, and they performed perfectly, and were not noisy, just a bit of info.
I like BFG as they are made by Michelin, BFG T/A series tires usually perform well on most cars so you should be happy. I also like Dunlop. my son has Pirelli's on his Mustang, they seem to be ok to me, a bit soft, but he wants "something" else. I have used some of the cheaper brands with similar results.
well I still haven't got my carpet cleaned, all we get told the machines pressure washer and extractor are on the way.
well today is baking day, pies, cookies etc, should be interesting, I hope the dog can be more help this year, last year all she did was sleep, and if she weren't sleeping, she kept changing the channels on the radio. so when the wife gets home we both may be sleeping.
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Join date : 2008-11-10
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Location : Shakopee, MN

PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:42 pm

I bought Fuzion brand tires one time for my '00 Cougar. I was NOT happy with them. The handling was TERRIBLE. Never again. Could have been they just weren't a performance-oriented tire though. I don't know. The sales guy wasn't very clear on that.

I have a guy coming over some time to weld up my Flowmaster install on my Aviator. Maybe I'll have him run a bead on my sway bar mounts too. I definitely want to try a smaller size of sway bar though. We'll see what happens.

My wife works today, so I'm on kid duty just like any weekday. Get to drive through a snow storm to my parents' house later. That's funny the dog changes the radio station. I plan to be sleeping in the next hour or so. Merry Christmas to you and your family!
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PostSubject: Re: Update on this year's projects!   

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Update on this year's projects!
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