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     I had it all figured out until...

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    detroitiron2000

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    PostSubject: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:39 am

    Okay, so I've been working a deal on a 1971 351W to build up. Finally settled with the guy on $350 for block, crank, heads, intake, pan and timing cover. Perfect parts to build a nice 351 until the budget opens up for the 393.

    Then....

    I get a call from a guy with a 1969 460 (360 hp, 460 tq) that's never been cracked open and is running. I can see/hear it run if I want. And he only wants $500.

    What to do? I love the idea of a big block but I also like the idea of a hot small block.

    The car is set up for either. The only extra impact for the 460 is tranny. I have a Z spec T5 (rebuilt) that I haven't even installed yet so I could sell it for cash toward a C4 or better yet, TKO500/600.

    Opinions?

    Don
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    Futurama

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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:59 am

    go for the big block, but dont put a manual tranny behind it, shit i donteven think it will fit, without some expensive adapter. just go with the c4. the torque will get you along the road fine without having a to use an overdrive or high rpms. this was the combo i origianlly was gunna go for. 514bbf with a c4 would be alot of fun
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    Tommy D

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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:20 pm

    FWIW Depending on how/what you intend to do with the car a C-6 is a MUCH better option vs a C-4.

    With a the new found weight up front from the BB you may need a brake/spring upgrade as well.

    Is this a street car?

    Tommy
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    detroitiron2000

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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:30 pm

    The car is a street car. I wrote about the C4 because I've read about C4s that are capable of this kind of power and since the internal masses are less it shifts quicker but I think you're right about the C6.

    I would definitely think a spring upgrade would be needed.

    My bigger concern is brakes. I've read it's difficult to keep power brakes and I really don't want to go to manual brakes. Anyone know for sure?

    Thanks for the replies, keep them coming!

    Don
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:45 am

    nothing wrong with a good aftermarket manual brake kit, but they do make power brake kits for the swap, ive seen em on mustangs. remember, your engine bay is a mustang, and some one else has done this all before. and a built c4 would be fine, but if youwant the cheap route i woulf recomend a c6 but dont expect it to be very performance minded, plus they are heavy.
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:36 pm

    Guys like myself who used to run C-4s back in the day had a saying. Every down shift the trans made was one less upshift it would make! That said there is no doubt C-4s have come a long way. Still for use behind a street car I would go with the tride and true C-6. But hey, thats just me.

    Ill assume the power/vs non power stems from the VC hitting the brake booster?

    Again, depending on how radical the motor is <vacuum> will determine if you can even consider power brakes. I like power brakes. Having converted more then one Mustang and Torino to manual disc brakes I was never completely satisfied with the results.

    The only limit on a project like this is your wallet!

    Tommy
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    Futurama

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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:21 pm

    Tommy D wrote:

    The only limit on a project like this is your wallet!

    Tommy
    thats the truth. the big block will be more expensive but think of the bragging rights!!!
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:50 pm

    Futurama wrote:
    Tommy D wrote:

    The only limit on a project like this is your wallet!

    Tommy
    thats the truth. the big block will be more expensive but think of the bragging rights!!!

    Amen Brother! cheers
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    z7turbo

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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:27 pm

    You guys know where I stand on this subject.

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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:01 pm

    You can always swap in a '96-'04 Mustang Cobra hydroboost setup, and I'd look to the same car for a 13" brake upgrade too. The 460/C6 is a very heavy combo, and you can never have too much brake for it.

    -Mike S.
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    detroitiron2000

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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:55 pm

    It just gets weirder and weirder....so when I called on the motor the guy said it's running and I can come hear it blah blah blah.

    Tonight he calls me to tell me it's actually in pieces but I can come look at it (I had planned on seeing it tomorrow evening when I can get off work a little early). So I asked him about why he said I could hear it and he then tells me he's selling it for a friend and the friend said it was running but when he went to the friend's house to get the car it was all in pieces.

    And oh yeah, he says it's a 429, not a 460. It's out of a Tbird, not a Lincoln...

    Sound like a scam to any of you? Sh$t !! Mad I may still go look but I'm taking a friend or two so I don't get rolled for my cash. I'll let you know how it goes.
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:28 am

    dont bother, they didnt put 429's in tbird, only 400m's the guy is obviously full of shit.

    sorry about you luck man.
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:09 pm

    They did put the 429 "ThunderJet" in the huge early '70s Thunderbirds, and it was a good engine, but I wouldn't trust this particular guy as far as I could throw him.

    If you want a good 460, keep hunting craigslist until a drivable Lincoln comes along, buy car, drive home, pull drivetrain, scrap rest at metal salvage place, have fun wrenching. Use same method for a good 351W/C6 combo in a mid-'80s F150 or Econoline.

    -Mike S.
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:41 pm

    Well I went and looked at it. I took two friends because I figured I'd better be careful.

    The engine is all there. I took down the casting numbers of everything and will look them up. The crank will need to be turned as it's rusty.

    When I finish decoding I'll post again on it. The guy is a real "stroke" though. He went on and on about how the motor was worth $1000 and he can't see why his friend would only want $500. I told him it's because his friend is a liar and idiot...or at least, someone is. He looked offended. Imagine that!

    Don
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:49 pm

    If you're willing to make the drive, I can get you hooked up with a rebuildable 460 AND c6 for what this guy wants for the disassembled engine.....If I remember correctly the engine is complete, intake to oil pan and the c6 would need to be freshened up.
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:10 am

    too bad you dont live in tx, i could get you this shit for 100 bucks easy
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:43 am

    Okay, I did the casting number analysis and it turns out to be a 1969 T-bird 429. It has the standard web block, meaning it's the thinner webbing. It has the heads that are considered to be the best street heads (produce low end torque better than CJ or DOVE heads). Motor is rated at either 365 or 385 HP depending on what site you believe and 435 or 465 lb-ft torque, again depending on site.

    Based on what I've read about the heads, if I do a basic clean up in the ports it's good for 35 - 50 HP alone and with headers and a modern 4 bbl intake and carb another 25 so it could be a 425 - 450 HP motor pretty easily. Torque would climb to about 500.

    Now I have to decide if I want to jump into this cost arena. Cripes, the parts for the big block are crazy expensive as compared to the SBF.

    Also, as I read up on it, it sounds like there's a bit of hammering needed on the floor and firewall. I really don't like that idea as my engine bay is finished and I really don't like the idea of having to repaint. Hmmmmm....

    Don
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:07 pm

    might as well do a powerstroke now! lots of torque.
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:24 pm

    detroitiron2000 wrote:


    Also, as I read up on it, it sounds like there's a bit of hammering needed on the floor and firewall. I really don't like that idea as my engine bay is finished and I really don't like the idea of having to repaint. Hmmmmm....

    Don

    you don't need to hammer the floor if you use k-member spacers.
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:29 pm

    Well, decided against the 429...good parts but in sad shape. I'm going back to the 393 build and seeing that through. After reading about what has to be done to drop the 385 series in it's more than I want to deal with both in complexity and cost.

    Thanks to everyone that posted!

    Don
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    PostSubject: Back on the 429 kick   Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:54 am

    OKay, I've got it almost all figured out now. I'm definitely going 429/460. I hate like hell giving up the manual trans but I really want the hp/tq.

    There is one detail I haven't figured out though. How do I figure out what springs to run in front?

    Once I have a motor/trans combo I'll have a lot of nice parts for sale form my current set up. I'll post them up.

    Any help on the front springs is appreciated.

    Don
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    PostSubject: Re: I had it all figured out until...   Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:14 pm

    id love to help but springs are just not my thing.
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